Fishwhittler

Getting curious as to what's coming, especially after seeing the video. So, anyone care to take a guess? I'll start the ball rolling: Abu Garcia - I think the Orra baitcasters are due for an upgrade. The Max and Revo series were both overhauled recently, as were the spinning reels, so that leaves the Orra baitcasters out in the cold. Could also be more high-end spinning reels. Daiwa - The Project T video doesn't show much, but I'd guess a $100 - $120 baitcast offering as well as a $180 - $200 baitcaster. Think there's a new spinning reel as well, but no idea as to price point. Lew's - More spinning reels at different price points. Heard a rumor that they'll be releasing LH versions of the Super Duty and the Team Gold/Pro, but otherwise their baitcast reel lineup seems pretty well filled. Shimano - Shimano probably won't replace the Curado G, but they might do the closest thing to it and introduce a $180 baitcast reel. And a $350 reel to fill the Chronarch D's slot. Any thoughts?

Look up Daiwa Project T. Heard about it on TT and watched the video. Captured some pics from it: Think there's at least a couple baitcasters and one spinner. Getting impatient for ICAST 2103…

Thanks for the info. So, I've got three Daiwa reels and didn't know it. I'll take it. For me, it's easier to order replacement parts because the nearest Academy store is 380 miles away in Missouri. I was mainly thinking of customization—the Aird's drag star would be a perfect match with the orange accents on the Menace II.

Junkyard814 nailed it. Your new setup is a jack-of-all-trades rig that will be excellent to build around later on. The quality is also good enough that if you take care of them, there will be no reason to replace either the rod or the reel with more expensive equipment in the future. I think you'll meet one or two people on this forum who like the Chronarch E…

I love the Team Daiwa T rods. They are better built than the Abu Garcia Vendetta V1 while costing less. I own both and definitely prefer the TDT. Both are in your price bracket. Also, right now Tackle Warehouse is blowing out the Daiwa Ballistic rods for $80. Haven't used them, but if they're anything like the TDT they're going to be very nice. Pondboss suggested the Academy H2O Xpress rods and reels. I can only go on what he and others say about the Ethos rods, but I own two H2O Xpress Mettles and one of the new Menace reels. The Mettles are solid and smooth, nothing revolutionary about them except the price—which can't be beat. The Menace is $40 more and is the smoothest reel I've ever used. It feels absolutely liquid even under heavy load, and casting is excellent on both reels. Only thing I wish they'd do is offer LH models. Incidentally, the H2O Xpress reels share the same insides as the Daiwa Lexa 100. Braking is different and the reels aren't exactly the same shape, but the clutch and many of the other parts are exactly the same. Pics of the reel exploded diagrams can be found here.

Earlier today I was looking around for deals on Ebay and I noticed how much the Daiwa Aird's drag star looks like the one on the H2O Xpress Menace II. So, I did a little digging and here's what I found: The clutches are identical. Apparently the H2O Xpress reels are built by the same company that produces the Daiwa Lexa 100, Laguna, and Aird baitcast reels. One thing, part #28 on the Daiwa schematics is flipped—it should be a mirror of itself. You can see how it should look in the H2O Xpress diagram. Kinda nice to know replacement parts are available for the Academy reels.

Something is wrong with your reels. Even if the drag doesn't quite get to 20#, it should make an easy 14#. If you've serviced reels in the past, tear them down and find out what the trouble is. If not, you can get them repaired by an experienced reel guy.

If you like them, fish 'em until they drop dead. IMO, there is no graphite-framed baitcaster worth upgrading.

The Mettle comes in 6.3:1, the Menace in 7.1:1. All H2O Xpress baitcasters are RH-only. The Mystic is 7.3:1 only, and the Manic is available in 5.4:1, 6.3:1, and 7.1:1.

Just got one of the new Menace II baitcasters and figured I'd do a quick rundown and comparison between the Mettle and Menace. For reference, here's the original breakdown I did on the Mettle. Side shot: Top view: Bottom (note the porting on the bottom of the Menace's reel foot): Brake races (Menace on left, Mettle on right): Before I could get inside I had to make a custom spanner to unscrew the handle nut. It's made out of a #8 finishing nail. Drag star clicker: Bearing under spool-tension knob—I was surprised to find that this bearing doesn't have a shield. Don't usually see that. And, the clutch: The clutch is identical to the one used in the Mettle. The Menace has a lower profile, a larger drive gear with a correspondingly larger gearbox, and the Menace is roughly 1/4" - 1/2" narrower thanks to the swept handle. The handle knobs are also a grippier material on the Menace, similar to the Shimano power knobs found on the Curado. They're much grippier than the Mettle's knobs. The Menace is also silky smooth. The Mettle is smooth, but it doesn't match the Menace. Like the Mettle, the Menace wasn't over-lubed when I took it apart. I did re-grease the drag with Cal's grease to help keep it from sticking (the drag is virtually the same as that on the Mettle), but other than that I left the clutch lubed as I found it. After application of Cal's grease, the drag is smooth though not particularly powerful—I'd estimate close to 8# on lockdown. I did manage to mess up one of the spool bearings ( ) and I currently have a set of ABEC-7 stainless steel bearings on order from Big Green Fish. For now it's got one stock bearing and one replacement bearing, I think from a Pflueger President. Before I did anything to it it cast as well as the Mettle, which is to say it casts extremely well. The bearings Academy uses in these reels are very smooth and fast. I'll probably upgrade the drag to Carbontex. That's one thing I wish they'd fix—a better secondary drag washer would help prevent the drag from sticking on startup. It's only a $1 part, though, so it's no biggie. Like I said, Cal's drag grease smooths out the drag and helps prevent sticking on startup. The spool is different than the Mettle's spool and the two are not interchangeable. They use the same braking system, same spool shaft, even have the same spool diameter and width, but the spool shafts are set at different depths in the spool (hope that makes sense). From just holding the two in hand it felt like the Menace has a lighter spool. There was one issue that caused a little concern: The spool pin became much looser after I removed it to clean the bearing. When I put it back in I could move it with my fingers, which I've never seen before. I put in a drop of thin superglue to keep it from sliding around and it's fine, but it is something to check. I've no idea if it's an isolated incident or not. But, I'd not hesitate to buy another Menace. If the Menace holds up over the long haul, it's as much of a steal at $90 as the Mettle is at $50. Lighter, more comfortable to use, smoother, casts just as well, better knobs…can you tell I like the Menace? Sure, it's not perfect, but for the price it's an acceptable substitute. The schematic for the Menace is the same as the one for the Mettle, Manic and apparently the Mystic as well, so the insides are the same. The Mystic and Manic are both on my short list, I think a 5.1:1 Manic for deep cranks, and maybe next year (hopefully sooner!) a Mystic for plastics, jigs and such. I'll be fishing the Menace heavily this year and will report back if I find any problems. Tight lines, Ben

Polishing the shaft the spool rides on will make it slightly smoother, and there are probably drag and bearing upgrades you can do if you want. There's not nearly as much to upgrade inside a spinning reel as there is in a baitcaster.

Best post in this thread. I rarely pay full retail for anything, but there are occasions when I'll do so. It all depends.

You'll probably get a lot of ideas from guys who have a set of features they wish would be put on existing reels or a combination of several features from different reels, but I don't think you'll get many truly innovative ideas posted here for the simple reason that those who have them want to pursue them "in the dark" until they're ready to go. Otherwise they can be ripped off and the inventor is stuck unless he has money to burn in court and lawyer fees. Personally, I'd like to see some more affordable 50-size reels out there from all companies. A 50-size Shimano Citica would be a truly affordable light-lure baitcaster. Or just shallow-spool versions of the current 200-size reels. Couldn't be that expensive to do. Right now you have to order from Japan if you want anything like that.

Do you have any pics of the reel you received?

A clear pic or two will help identify your reel. Not having used the G I can't speak from personal experience, but the consensus seems to be that the G is a solid reel though not quite on the level of the E. If your reel is a Curado G, you'll be hard pressed to find a Curado E for the same price—expect to pay at least $40 more unless you find a really, really rare deal. Here's what a Curado G looks like: Curado 200E: Curado 300E:

Darn it, posted before I finished typing. The Cabela's Prodigy B baitcast reel is basically a Daiwa Advantage plus a few bearings. The old Prodigy was a rebranded Daiwa Advantage. I believe some of their spinning reels are also built by Daiwa. I don't know who makes the new reels coming out from Gander Mountain and Cabela's. Gander Mountain GSX Tournament Pro Gander Mountain GSX Elite Cabela's Tournament ZX Hmm. Looks awfully close to the Rapala Shift baitcaster…

The Mystic and new Menace have a different frame than the Mettle and Manic, judging by the pics. The new frame appears to have a larger gearbox to accommodate the higher-ratio gears. Don't know about the insides being the same. Only worry I have about the Mystic is that it might turn out to be another Johnny Morris Carbonlite: Super-light and the good ones are great reels, but there's a fair number of lemons in the mix. I've heard the JMC's have gotten better with subsequent production runs, but they've acquired a track record that won't easily be shed. Still, if I'm ever looking to spend that kind of money on a RH reel the Mystic will be very high on my priority list. Here's a link to a previous thread on the Mettle, including pics of the Mettle's internal parts: H2O Xpress Mettle or Daiwa Laguna baitcaster

BTW, I have no problem with reel companies trying to make a profit. Their business isn't philanthropic development of super-cheap fishing reels for the masses, it's marketing a product and making a profit at it. If they don't, belly-up goes that company. Prices are controlled by the economy. In a stable economy with little to no inflation, prices stay the same. As soon as inflation comes into play prices skyrocket. If Company XYZ is selling a product at $25 and it costs them $15 to produce, they can't keep selling it for a loss if the production cost suddenly jumps to $26. Up goes the retail price to $35, and so on. If you don't want to pay full MSRP, look around and find some decent used gear. If you look hard enough you can even find new-in-package equipment for much less than retail cost. I've paid MSRP for exactly one reel I currently own.

I've never heard of the Revo's being recalled. A while back there were issues with the Abu Garcia Orra baitcasters having defective anti-reverse bearings, which may be the recall you're thinking of. I believe the issue has been resolved in the current Orra generation. The clutch in these reels is nylon plastic, not metal. It's a proven design and has stood the test of time. The reels built on this design don't often wear out due to clutch failure, though certain models may have their own set of issues. Many of the "hoards of broken reels" got that way by being mistreated or abused by the owners. Apparently the need is for a reel that is cheap, light, performs well, and needs no maintenance whatsoever. The first three are doable and have been done thanks to design and manufacturing advancements, but so far the "maintenance-free" reel has yet to be created. The closest it comes is the Abu Garcia C3, and even that reel will perform a heck of a lot better after a cleaning and tuning. Modern reels have more parts than older reels, so there's more that can go wrong inside one. They also blow older reels out of the water when it comes to all-around performance. By and large, they are cheaper than comparable older reels, weigh much less, are more comfortable to use, and perform better. You can keep them working smoothly by taking them down and giving them a cleaning once in a while. If a reel needs to be fixed once in a while, that's no strike against it. I don't buy the argument that a reel should never need to be repaired. No one expects a car to do that, and a car costs thousands of times more than a reel. Only difference is, people see reels as semi-disposable because they're "only" a hundred dollars or so. So they complain when a reel breaks and send it back for a replacement, and when the next one wears out due to neglect it's the same old story. The law of diminishing return for your money has more to do with inflation. According to inflation calculators, the Shimano Citica D (introduced in 2005 @ $119.99) would now cost $145 new and the Curado D (introduced in 2005 @ $199.99) would be selling for something like $240. An $80 reel in 2005 would now cost $95. Reels aren't getting worse for the price—I think they're getting better overall—but the value of the dollar is decreasing. There are reels with poor track records for reliability and longevity. Such reels usually have graphite frames and are in the sub-$80 price bracket. Most modern baitcast reels above that price range are going to be fine with routine care. If you abuse your gear, you've no reason to be surprised when it breaks. Try running a car without ever changing the oil or oil filter. Sooner or later something's gonna go.

Not exactly. Regarding Shakespeare and Pflueger, $25 reel is still a $25 reel. I don't believe Shakespeare offers any reel models with an aluminum frame—for which reason I'd avoid them like the plague. These companies contract with the same manufacturers, but they don't get exactly the same products. Here's the best way I can describe it, copied and pasted from another site (it's my write-up, I didn't borrow it and claim it as my own):

Ardent, Shimano, and Daiwa make their own reels. Abu Garcia makes their own round reels from the C3 on up in Sweden. The Kalex and BCX are produced in another country, I believe China or Korea. Pure Fishing owns both Abu Garcia and Pflueger. These two as well as Bass Pro Shops, Browning and Lew's contract with the same Korean manufacturer to produce their low-profile baitcast reels. Bass Pro Shops also has some reels built by Banax (see note on Quantum below). I don't know if Bass Pro or Pure Fishing owns the Browning reel brand. These reels are built by Dawon Engineering Co., LTD and Doyo Fishing. Few of those reels should look familiar. Incidentally, Penn also has some low profile baitcasters built by these companies. I'm not sure if Pinnacle Silstar corporation manufactures their own reels or hires a contractor, but the same company also produces reels for Wright & Mcgill and Evercast. The new Halo baitcasters are also built by this company. US Reel is based in the US, but the reels are now built overseas. The design is similar to that used in the Silstar reels though not identical. Quantum's lower-end reels are produced by Banax, a Korean company. Some of the same reels are branded and sold under the BPS name. Don't know about their higher-end offerings such as the Smoke, Energy, and Exo. I'm pretty sure they're not built by Okuma, though some have said Okuma does contracting for other companies. I don't know how Okuma is related to Banax, but the Banax Syren and the original Okuma Helios LP baitcaster are identical other than the colors. The other Okuma baitcaster schematics look the same as the one for the Helios, so I guess they're built by the same company. Only question is which one owns which.

You're confusing ease of spool startup with early-cast braking. The spool tension should be adjusted for the weight of the lure, if at all. Personally I prefer to run my reels with just enough spool tension to keep the spool from moving laterally and then adjust the brakes depending on the conditions. The spool tension knob is not a brake—it is strictly for fine-tuning the reel depending on the lure weight. It was formerly called the cast-control knob before true braking systems were developed, but this is no longer the correct name. It puts tension on the spool. Again, it's not a brake. I used to be of the school of thought that uses only a few brake pads and uses the spool tension knob as a brake. Sometimes I'd crank the knob down fairly tight in order to keep my casts under control. Only problem was, that pressure ended up putting dimples in the spool shims. I started using more brakes and less spool tension and got the same casting results with no dimpling on the spool shims. Try this article instead—the author puts the case better than I do: Setting brakes and spool tension

This is incorrect. The spool tensioner allows you to fine-tune a reel for different lure weights, but it is not a braking system nor should it be considered one. Centrifugal brakes work by generating friction from plastic brake tabs against a metal ring (the brake race). Due to inertia, the faster the spool spins, the more pressure from the brake shoes against the brake race. Hence centrifugal brakes are most powerful early on in the cast. Magnetic brakes work off the same principle that makes a magnet fall in slow motion when you drop it through a copper tube: Lenz's Law. Instead of a copper tube, we're talking about the same thing with an aluminum spool or brake plate. The magnets remain the same distance from the aluminum surface throughout the cast, therefore the braking remains virtually the same. One might make the case that there is more braking when the spool is spinning faster due to increased EMF, but any such difference is unnoticeable in actual use. Daiwa has some advanced magnetic braking systems that do actually provide more breaking early in the cast and then decrease force as the spool slows (Magforce Z; Magforce 3d), but those are the exception rather than the rule. Here's a better description than I can give: Japan Tackle Brake systems of casting reels Bottom line, use brakes to control the spool and the spool tension to adjust for lure weight.

Use the brakes to control casting, not the spool-tension knob. Too much tension will cause the spool shaft to drill into the spool shims, eventually necessitating replacement. If you have to use more brakes, do it! I have two Citica E's, one with ceramic hybrid spool bearings and the other with the stock bearings that have been flushed and lubed. I use three brakes on the upgraded reel and one on the stock reel. The difference is, it takes less effort to cast the same distance with the upgraded reel and it handles light baits better. Also, try casting with a more easy motion and don't do an impersonation of a ballistic missile launcher. The upgraded bearings will do their job if you let them, and they only become unmanageable if you whip them too hard with light braking. If you try braid, that will also help get rid of birds-nests.

Magnetic brakes are harder to master, period. Some are better than others such as Daiwa's mag brakes, but centrifugal brakes are always simpler to use because of the way they work. Centrifugal brakes are most effective when the spool is spinning at high speed—magnetic brakes have the most effect later in the cast. Unfortunately, the beginning of the cast is when most backlashes happen because that's when the spool is rotating most quickly. That's why magnetic brakes are harder to learn, especially if you're not used to baitcasters. You can't try to catapult the lure into orbit with mag-brake reels. You'll just end up with a backlash that resembles an eagle's eyrie. Set your spool tension so the spool just barely doesn't move back and forth, and then try casting with an easy motion. Start with the brakes on full and back them off until you find the place that gives you the best balance of control and distance. One other thing: Braided line will help tame magnetic brakes. I highly recommend braid if you're learning a baitcaster, especially if you're learning on a reel with magnetic brakes only. Just remember to use mono or tape backing to keep the braid from slipping.