J Francho

Its not crap, but KVD Line & Lure works better, and I was a diehard Real Magic user. It still has its uses though, but mostly for rebuilding reels.

I'd say get a scale. It is impossible to tell weight from a photo.

5:07 PM 3:42 PM 8:26 AM 7:32 PM 5:00 PM (wearing a suit, fishing from shore, LOL) 3:10 PM 11:15 AM 5:54 PM 3:10 PM I generally fish from dawn to dusk, with the exception of TX days, and quick trips after work. One of these fish is an after work fish. None may seem that big, but up here anything 5+ is a pretty good fish. I'm not getting anything close to that time slot, and in fact never heard of the 10-2 rule. Its also worth mentioning that that one fish that came at 11:15 AM was one of 22 fish, all caught on a spinnerbait, all ranging from 3-4.5 lb., all from around 11:00 AM until 11:45 AM. One of two spectacular moments where the bite was on this year. The second fish was from a string of similar hot bites on a jig. What I am aware of is that a basses vision is able to recover from drastic light changes faster than many baitfish, which could explain their crepuscular (dusk and dawn periods) feeding habits.

BTW, another thread with some interesting DS tips: http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1222219185

My buddy and talked about that too. He basically said it would be a magnum rig: 30-50# braid, a flipping jig as a weight, and something big, like a Super Fluke on a 5/0 EWG hook. The hookset would be the same. Now I cannonball the mats and pads with a 1/2-3/4 oz. weight and a fluke, but I still say don't over complicate it with a jig. Ripping a bait through the weeds is hard enough - now add another bait and a fish (potentially a big one) and you've got trouble. This is an interesting notion for smallies in Lake Ontario. I drag tubes, and I drop shot for smallies there in deep water quite a bit. Doing both at once is appealing to me, but I'm still not to keen on the knot on the DS hook with the tag running through, and a fish on the end of that tag.Like I said, I've tried this variation, but not in every iteration possible. Perhaps there is a formula that works. Perhaps someone on BR has done it with CONSISTENT and DEFINITIVE results. What I mean is, that they caught more fish than if they fished this rig separately. I'm not sure how anyone could quantify that though.

I see your counterpoints, and like I said to my friends, it just doesn't fit my style of fishing. Yank on a knot to swivel connection and see if you can break it. Probably not. Yank on a the bottom of a DS rig, and I bet the line gets a little mangled at the hook. One thing I didn't mention, watch out for twist - make sure the knot is in the middle of the jig eye. One other issue I had with it, was that the drop line would get caught in the weedguard. This almost never happens when fishing a jig alone. And BTW - I hate c-rigs for the same reason. Also, that rig takes a beating here with all the quagga and zebes, though there are workarounds. Too much of a pain on TX day for me. Here's my take after getting back into the game after a 12 year hiatus. Do not try anything new the first 3/4 of the day. Fish your strengths. If you have a very good bag by then and have been catching fish consistently, this counts 10X. Now, if you are struggling to get that last fish, have a mediocre bag, or are doing terrible, throw whatever you can think of that might get bit. Just this year I've seen crazy things, like a Sammy 128 tossed into seemingly weedless unproductive water with 5 minutes to fish on a clear blue windless afternoon cat the lunker bass. Anyway, one of my points in there was that even if it does get bit, the retying after is going to eat up too much time. And I really believe that if you're catching the hell out of them with this rig, then one or the other would probably catch the hell out of them just as well. Good luck this Sunday, and keep your head on straight. Get a good night's sleep the night before. Its tough though - too exciting

I generally don't pay attention to the ratings on the rod, and go by feel. What's funny, what I like usually pretty close to printed guidelines anyway.

A recent conversation: Me: As for the jig at the bottom of the DS rig, well I'm not sold on it being a solid finesse rig, maybe on a heavier magnum rig for cannonballing mats and pads, though. There are just too many knots between the jig and the reel. I've tried it, and caught fish on both the top bait and the jig (not at the same time, LOL) without issues, but come TX day, you know that 4#er will break off. Friend: The set up will not have extra knots, from a reg DS rig, if you're not using anyother hardware. I see no differences from the reg DS rig beside replacing the weight with a Jig(it's a weight with a hook) Me: on a regular DS rig, the fish doesn't bite the weight! If the fish bites the jig at the bottom, there is a knot at the hook. Let me put it to you this way, if you were fishing a jig alone, would you feel confident about landing a big fish if there was a knot in the line? Of course not, you'd retie the jig. If you want to fish a jig, fish a jig. If you want to DS, then fish a DS . See where I'm going with this? On a plain jig, its fish, hook, knot, line, rod and reel, and you. One the rig your suggesting, its fish, jig, knot, line, hook and knot, line rod and reel, and you. Too many odds stacked against you, unless you are going to use overkill gear, then if the bite is on, its game on. Friend: I'm talking about doing it with heavy line not lite line. I don't a think a knot on 30#+ braid will weaken the line, but I could be wrong. Me: Don't pass the tag end back through the hook eye then, as the shock of the hookset will cause it to snap. Learned the hard way, LOL. I actually think that as the knot spins around the hook, it gets sliced by the end of the eye. The other issue I had, is that a jig hookset is different than the snap hookset you use for the DS. How do you know what got bit? Anyway, I had another thought on it. What about nose hooking a baby fluke and using another fluke on a trailer hook? Might end up in a tangled mess, though. Other Friend: This technique looks good for flipping heavy cover like pads. Also on the DS with a jig on the bottom is a very goof techinique I learned from bearpaw at whaley, he caught fish in both baits! I could only catch fish on dropshot. I was using 8lbs test on spining tackle. I also like using a shakey head or tube on the bottom too. (this friend can't spell ;D) Me: Here's my dumb question: If you are catching fish on a jig, then why bother with a DS? I mean, with every fish caught, the DS rig gets mangled, and you have to retie. With a jig, its just one knot. Friend: Banging 2 at a time is, That's what's up! Me: You wish! Friend: It won't hurt to try it, the most you going to lose is a jig and hook. Me: Or the tourney. Extract all the jig fish first, then go back and dissect the spot with a DS. I see no good reason to over complicate it. Other Friend: We were marking fish suspended just off the bottom, enough so that we could tie a bottom oriented rig if a fish wants it there and if they dont , we could catch them suspended on a ds Me: Why would you assume that a jig only catches bottom fish? Personally, I think you could have caught all the quality fish with a jig in that situation, if it was fished appropriately. Then go back and try for the less active suspended fish when the jig bite dies down. Let me put the opposite question to you. If two rigs are better than one, and causes no issues, why not tie a third rig at the top, like a fluke? Shouldn't you be trying for those suspended fish that are looking up for food? When does it end? At what point does diminished returns cancel out the advantages? I'm saying its when you put a jig at the bottom. I'm just saying, you can't fish a jig in the most effective manner when it is at the bottom of a DS rig when fishing with a DS wiggle and drift. Like wise, you can't do the wiggle and drift DS thing when fishing a jig effectively. The whole thing just sounds more like a compromise than an effective tool. We'll have no way of knowing, because you didn't try one over the other. Friend: It's to fish school'n fish. same thing you would do for pannies..... Hook set, I would still set the hook(3/0 EWG) hard.. It won't matter about what rig the fish hit, set it on both. I know you ask WHY would you do it if they're hitt'n a DS, why not? Maybe there another lunker down there that wants to play too. who knows? It's thinking out side the box..... Me: I know your thinking up things that are new and different, and I'm not trying to discourage it. But think about it, I have no doubt that small grub tied to the tail of a Pop-R wouldn't catch fish, in fact, that's another case of been there - done that and it does catch. But my question is: Did I catch fish that I wouldn't have caught with a simpler rig? I don't think so. Friend: I don't dick around during a TX.....but then again......If 2 4's take both and you land both.... Me: I contend that you would get both fish with one or the other, but not both at once. And on the days that people claim to get doubles on the one rig, I say the fish were probably biting well enough to use one or the other to get both separately, and that you were wasting time re-rigging with your bait out of the water. Friend: you would never know unless you try it.... Me: I did. That's how I came to this conclusion. That's why I stated my opinion so strongly offered some advice. Otherwise, I would said go for it and report back.

Have you looked at the Kistler KDSS69 or St. Croix AVS69MLXF, at $150 and $170 respectively? I didn't find the Avid too stiff at all - maybe you want a slower taper like a fast or moderate? I know a few guys using parabolic rods for DS in DEEP open water. Not my cup o' tea

There is a lot of subtlety in spinnerbait fishing, and without rewriting an article that's probably here or on ***'s site, some specificity will go a long way toward getting real help.

I don't change braid until it gets pretty beat. Even then, I simply reverse it, spooling up another reel. Mono depends on how much UV exposure it gets, how much you use it, etc. I don't use much nylon mono for bass anymore, but on my steelhead rigs, it lasts about 2-4 months. For bass, I use P-Line CXX, and I respool three times between April and November. Flourocarbon, probably twice in that period. However, on some of my finesse rigs, the line gets changed more frequently, simply because of snipping off rigs and retying frequently. I do not like fishing an underspooled rig. Its worth noting that I KVD Line & Lure. It makes good line better than new.

Same as RW, but I'd prefer the Sammy in a 115, though I could be easily convinced to use the bigger one .

I see I'm in the minority, picking the Eagles. They were good, but they sucked, LOL. There was so much better out there than either group, at that time.

I do the "cannonball" thing in mats and pads too. Its awesome. My buddy was like, "what the heck are you doing?" LOL. The only thing I can think of off hand that might be a little different is dragging it in deep, open Lake O. water for smallies, just like the guys to with tubes in Erie. It keeps the line between the hook and the reel off the zebes and quagga. I've also heard of guys using insane drop lines, like 10-15' for suspended fish. You can't cats it, but you just reel the fish up to the boat and leave the drop line hanging over the side. I haven't had an opportunity to try this, since most of my deep structure fishing has the fish holding tight or just off the bottom.

I think many line issues are blamed on the line itself when its really the knot. I've used Seaguar Carbon Pro, Invisx, XPS, P-Line 100%, and Trilene 100% without major issues. Each has their strengths, but for my purposes, CarbonPro, XPS, and P-Line 100% work best for me.

The reel capacities listed are a guideline. 10# line will work fine, but will obviously take more line to fill it up. I have baitcasters spooled with everything from 8# up to 25# line, and from 50# to 80# braid. Match the rod to the bait and cover, line to the cover and structure, and a reel that gives you the best balance and has enough capacity. Use your drag accordingly to protect the weakest element of the setup. For instance, if you need to spool up with 20#, set the drag so that it feeds line before breaking the rod.

I have a couple of Graphite series. They are an excellent value, not quite as nice as my Avids, but much less $$$.

The king of the DS in the Northeast uses a moderate rod. He does just fine with it: http://www.richz.com/fishing/articles/dropshot.html. I personally belong to the x-fast camp, and use a Kistler DS rod. I can see a moderate taper working in open water, but so much of my fishing this rig is in finesse mode, just on the edge or in the deeper weed edge. You need some backbone there.

Take it back and use the credit for something better.

The TD-A line of reels is a time tested design. very reliable and very smooth, in that "Daiwa mechanical way."

Pull out enough line for a typical cast, and then another 10 feet or so. Then tape the spool and reel up the line. Now your back lash won't ruin the whole spool while you're learning.

I use a St. Croix AC70MM for cranks. Eventually I'll add a MHM to the line up. I can't think of many applications where a ML power rod would come into play.

Avid.

I use a shortened 7" PW as a swim jig trailer with good results. I generally like a 4" grub for this, but when your deck is full of torn worms, you can recycle them.

I nose hook them with 2/0 gammy wide gap finesse hook or owner mosquito.