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Paul Roberts

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Everything posted by Paul Roberts

  1. FROG, I'll bet that was a sunny day when you saw them. Yes?
  2. You know, I just haven't seen the post-spawn blues, so often talked about. The females seem to come out of the spawn hungry! But they seem less willing to chase. Slower horizontal presentations seem to work best for me, but not necessarily "slower" in triggering. I use a jig-n-pig, and tubes. I tend to start by fishing a falling bait, near some prominant isolated cover on the spawning banks (but beyond the bedded males). I also try swimming these too, in smooth glides and falls, especially where there isn't a lot of prominent cover pieces to collect fish. I also try shaking a jig, or hopping it, sometimes even ripping it. Just be sure to allow time for the slower big females to catch it or so they know they can catch it. I fish worms too: smaller straight tails in brighter conditions, swimming tails (swum) for lower light conditions, and a wacky-rigged stick-worm for prominent isolated cover pieces that likely have fish. Maybe it's just a location thing. The post spawn females I know, (in my small waters), remain around the spawning banks. I don't fish for spawners, either males or bedded females, but I do fish just beyond the locked males, as that's where I find the females. If you are looking deep you may be missing most of them. But maybe this is appropriate in your waters my waters are mostly quite shallow. Another option, if you are fishing a large reservoir, (although you likely already know about this), is to move down lake to the deeper sections for the remaining pre-spawners, or way up lake for the first bluegill spawn. If not, I'd say that avoiding the spawning areas may simply be putting you beyond the majority of bass. Again, I too avoid fishing to bedded males and females, but the rest are fair game, and the spawning banks remain the key location, at least in my waters. I know the bluegill spawn bite you are talking about! It's a real gift. I locate 'gill colonies, then fish just beyond them. This seems to attract females, and I catch a lot of big ones at this time.
  3. LKN, Thanks! that's what I'd have expected. I've not seen post-spawners grouped, but I wanted to check in case I'm missing something. You never know unless you ask.
  4. OK, ready for more head-scratching??? If I could figure out how to access more emoticons I'd pop in a devil face. Anyway, as with most things in nature, the spawn is complicated (sorry!). But there are some known things: Basic needs that must be met. I'm defining the spawn as females actually dropping eggs. Males may dig nests prematurely, only to abort when conditions fail -Don't be fooled! First, background context: It's the "successful" spawns that set the limits of the bell curve (duration of spawn is one of these). There are always exceptions in nature, but the successful pass it on (and we anglers could get mighty bored targeting exceptions the tails on the curve). One of the main limitations (called selective pressures by evolutionary biologists) is young of the year (YOY) reaching sufficient size to survive the coming winter. Thus timing and duration of the spawn is important if your genes are to be passed on. In the north, this particular selective pressure is intense. Less so in the south where winter survival pressure is much relaxed. Years vary too, as you can imagine. But, in the end, there is generally a bell curve distribution, corralling the majority of bass into a spawning window. Some individuals try to push the envelope of course. Most fail, especially in the north. Selective pressures explains site fidelity too, whereby bass tend to return to the same places to spawn every year. What works is...what works! The repeaters are repeatedly successful. How the Spawn is Controlled: There is undoubtedly an endogenous (internal) rhythm at work, set the previous year. The actual timing is then mitigated by local conditions. As I presently understand it, from the scientific literature, and my own observations: -Stabilized temps >60 for egg survival. The scientific literature says that bass eggs suffer high mortality below 60F. Thus temps need to be above that if a female is to be successful. Now I'm assuming this is the "hatchery northern largemouth" (used in lab studies and stocked all over), and thus this number may not apply to surviving (and now rare) pure native strains in pockets throughout the native range, or for the Florida subspecies, although, in general, floridanus has even higher temperature requirements overall. Or possibly for some locally adapted strains of originally stocked bass I'm personally not aware of any. Temperature stabilization at appropriate temperature is a big factor in why spawning in deep bodies of water occurs later than in shallow ones, as deep waters take longer to warm. Large water bodies with several basin depths have a much longer duration of spawning as different areas heat at different rates. Huge reservoirs heat unequally too with the shallower upper areas going first, and the deeper colder lower lake coming on later. Why do late spawned YOY survive in these waters? Because massive water bodies cool slower in the fall too. Anglers mention bass spawning in water colder than 60. There are a number of possible reasons: 1) They are seeing premature bedding of males, with no females involved Not actual spawning. 2) A cold spell that likely kills a lot of eggs. 3) Females pushing the envelope. Males are always ready to oblige. 4) A population (possibly native) that has adapted to a specific environment that was able to support a shift in egg survival temp. -Long daylength It's been found in the lab that sudden short days can stop the spawn, then long days can re-start it. LMB in tropical waters (well south of their native range) spawn repeatedly all summer and suffer in size because of this they burn out. -A friend sent me some research articles from hatcheries last year that indicated that the vast majority of spawning occurs during the daylight hours, likely due to important visual cues. These papers also indicated that virtually all spawning occurred in the late afternoon and evening. An artifact of the hatchery environment? Maybe it's just a low light requirement, (as Muddy had me wondering in another post). This is something I'll be watching for this year. -Sufficient food for fat stores to turn into eggs With enough food females may even develop more eggs and spawn more than once in a given year. -Water clarity s an issue with most species because visual cues are important in the mating sequence. This is likely true with bass but I haven't seen much on this, (beyond interesting color changes in females). Events that bring high turbidity (suspended solids) can affect nest success, by suffocating eggs. Supposedly, in very clear water, bass are more apt to spawn deeper. -Proper substrate: Silt and mud will suffocate eggs, so bass seek clean bottoms and clear water, and one of the male's duties is to fan silt off the eggs. Gravel seems to be preferred but in some waters success has been met on wood, or cattail root clusters. -Water levels Receding water can stop the spawn; rising water can start it, after above criteria are met. This must be ingrained as dropping water can leave eggs stranded. Thus in many reservoirs, bass may spawn deeper than those in many natural lakes. As you can imagine water levels are also a big deal in rivers, since they can fluctuate so much. Waves can fall into this water level category I suppose: Large natural lakes exposed to wind and developing heavy waves on shorelines that destroy eggs will select out bass that spawn too shallow. In my ponds it tends to be 1 to 5 feet, with the majority on the shallow side of this. If the bass are spawning deeper in my ponds, I guess I wouldn't know if I can't see 'em. -Moon influence appears, at this point, to be angler's lore. I cannot find anything consistent, much less definitive. Angler catch data I'm not convinced is a good sampling method for assessing spawn behavior. Bias is likely high too; I know it has been for me. There may be a synchronization effect on spawn timing, with the full or new moon, when the other conditions are met. I've certainly seen intense spawning behavior under full moons, and was once sold on the idea. But I've been observing (and recording data) on spawning behavior the last couple seasons and am less enchanted about the moon. Last year the spawns in my ponds did not follow the moon, in fact if you just looked at that year, you'd say the full moon inhibited the spawn! Will be at it again this year, and next... -Dense populations of nest raiders, notably sunfish, have been known to inhibit spawning in largemouths. What's interesting is that this is not always just an abandonment of the beds by male bass, but that the bass don't even attempt to spawn, when populations of small sunfish are too high. -Where I've lived (NY and CO) the initiation of the gills spawn is the sign that the late bass have finished. But those bluegill colonies are prime feeding areas for post-spawn bass, notably large females. Don't miss fishing just outside those gill colonies.
  5. Yeah, when they group like that and hang on the surface, and the biggest bass in the lake too(!), they are conspiring to pi$$ you off! In the good ol' days when snagging and pitchforks were AOK, they'd never have done that.
  6. LKN, Do you think those were pre-spawn, or post spawners? Pre's will have noticeable swollen pearly bellies (eggs). Post will most likely be thin in the flanks. Any idea which they might have been? Thanks.
  7. Muddy, I think you were just too early. You are describing post-winter conditions. I don't see sunning until later. I start seeing it when surface temps (in protected areas) approach 60. This first is the feeding binge thing. The heat-soaking females (apparently not feeding) seem to come later -during pre-spawn, or maybe it's just rarer to be in the right place at the right time when females are still grouped. So, keep watching. I see them in shallow areas protected from wind mixing and away from deep water: coves, shallow flats, inlets, and right off the shoreline, especially where there is some cover. Same for both early feeding binge fish and the later heat soaking females. Not that females don't feed during pre-spawn -they certainly do, but the difference between the two scenarios is that during the earlier "initial warm-up period" the bass and bluegills (and carp) are all squeezed into tighter quarters together. Later, as warmer water gradually reaches deeper the fish are less concentrated. But the females largemouths, when conditions are right, continue to sun, seemingly more interested in heat than food.
  8. Catt, I think you're onto something. But you're not alone. From the Temperature Trends post: From Doug Hannon's book Big Bass Magic: So... FROG...I've got to ask: Did you really see this, or are you trolling?
  9. They are heat soaking. Read though the "temperature s trends" thread from a couple weeks ago.
  10. Gosh, sorry, not enough info really. Not sure your time of year, in terms of the bass' calendar period in your area. Also, temperature doesn't stand alone. Warming days can be really helpful in the spring, but the specifics are...more specific.
  11. Google brought me to the articles section. I visit a number of forums, often just to listen in. Post in a few.
  12. Yes, they do! I've seen it, but I was afraid to bring it up here.
  13. Catt, what I'm wondering is: Was that second day of fishing due to some as-yet-unexplained physiological response, or just plain spooky bass?
  14. I'm not aware of clouds being a factor in bass activity around spawning beds. I guess I'd have to look at that specifically, but it seems that once bass are in spawning mode and conditions are right, the bass are there (in shallow), especially so locked males (guarding eggs), for the duration. Males will make beds prematurely though. This is really common. And, when conditions fail, (dropping temps, falling water, ...) they will abandon. Sunlight isn't really a factor here. Light levels might matter to females. First, temps stabilizing above 60F tends to be the requirement (for the majority of largemouths) to drop eggs. One study I read indicated that the preferred time to drop eggs was overwhelmingly in the evening. Are they more apt to drop eggs under low light? I dunno. I have seen females hanging around beds under bright sun, but I don't believe I've seen intense spawning behavior under bright sun. I'll have to look back and see. Off the top of my head I can think of several things that might indicate that females much prefer low light for egg dropping. As to general bass activity regarding sun: Shallow bass (in ponds) are known to often occupy the depth just beyond where one can see bottom. So it seems some comfort/protection need is at work here. But many must come shallow to spawn, and often to feed. Many will do so under bright sun, but are much easier to spook, as not only are they more visible, but we are too. I have a harder time seeing into the water when it is overcast compared to brilliant sun so I have a hard time comparing the two. If you have a pit with clear water and high banks (great observation water) than you're in a great position to look at this. Make as many observations as you can, noting time of day, weather trend, surface water temps, and light levels (clouds, daylength, surface conditions) and then count the number of bass you see on each day. Compare cloudy to sunny. For really good observations you need numbers: counts on those bass, keeping in mind whether you are counting the same active bass running a circuit, or actual numbers of different bass. Both could be interesting. Science can be tedious. It can also be really neat!
  15. I'm still trying to figure out cold fronts too. From all the reading I'd done over the years I'd had it practically ingrained in me to FEAR cold fronts. And it's true that fishing is tougher for many species, (or many waters) after a front has blown through. But, after assessing my observations over the years (I keep a detailed journal) I've begun to look at cold fronts much more critically. I'm not convinced of anything anymore. It's interesting that: 1). There are some interesting observations out there that indicate that drops in water temperature (of 5F) do not affect bass willingness to feed (in a high food availability situation). In this particular case (bass hand fed in a pond long term), it took a 10F drop to put them down. Five degrees, btw, is a lot, requiring a strong front, considering how well water retains heat. I had an interesting day last year (post spawn/early summer) when I fished through a 16F air temperature drop, with rain. I measured a 3 degree drop in surface temp in a half hour. I began to feel the cold front fears creeping in, Hmmmm...falling water tempsMaybe I should slow down my retrieve. Maybe they'll shut down, and be really difficult It started to rain and I got soaked, and miserable; I started to shut down! But I was armed with two pieces of knowledge: That the temp drop wouldn't really penetrate the thermal mass of that pond too quickly, and the info from above pond bass feeding study. So, I warmed up in the car and then headed back out, and had a great day of catching. But the story doesn't end here. I went out again, on purpose, two days later, after the front had passed, and fished the same pond and even duplicated my techniques (swimming a jig, and a topwater). What an opportunity! The front was a strong one (30F over night). The following days were warm and sunny and I found the surface temps back to normal (although it's possible the depths had gained some slightly colder water). I REFUSED to psyche myself out, (confidence it HUGE), and I caught bass just fine. 2). Bass, and other fish, can be darn hard to catch in bright sun period. I used to fish a rip-rap lined canal for smallmouths and walleyes. It was darn hard to catch them after a front or in bright sun, period. One day I was fishing on a brilliant blue post frontal day, and could not catch a fish and was frustrated. I decided to fish in the deep shade of a road bridge, and found the smallmouths perfectly willing! Back in the sun it was no go. In fact, I could stand at the edge of the shade/sun and cast into shade and catch a bass, and cast into the sun and fail scattering minnows and sunfish in the process. It was that event, 20 some years ago, that started to put a crack into what I'd assumed was the gospel on post cold frontal conditions and fishing. I get to see this change daily as Colorado's front range weather commonly offers brilliant sun in the AM giving way to overcast in the afternoons. The difference in bass' catchability is enormous. Bass in current are supposedly much less affected by post frontal conditions. In fact, many anglers suggest that river bass remain unaffected. Because of my fear of, and experience, trying to catch bass under bright sun, I often chose to fish for stream smallies or stream trout on those bluebird days, avoiding my bass ponds like they were plagued. But I found that even the trout and smallies, in stillwater pools or ponds, were also darn hard to catch under that sun. So I kept to the broken water offered by current, and to deep shade. The mysterious post-frontal conditions seemed not to be a factor. So...I'm skeptical. I'm not saying it's all a myth, but nothing is holding up really well. What are the possibilities? Food chain disruptions (zooplankton/insect behavior)? Temperature drops coupled with decreased food availability? Barometric pressure? If you do the calculations, (Google Terry Battisti Cold Front Myths) this really shouldn't affect a fish's buoyancy very much. Or does it? Would even a slight compromise in a bass' ability to capture prey effectively put them off? I have to say I'm very skeptical about this, but I don't have any specific info on it. And I've been able to catch to catch surface oriented post frontal bass in early spring, and I even choose those days for the rapid heating they offer. Buoyancy does not appear to be an issue with them, or with the multitudes of bluegills and carp lying all over the surface on these days soaking up that glorious sunshine. Maybe the denser water in spring affects buoyancy less? But I would expect the opposite. Does season matter? This would be fascinating to know because it would offer potential physiological leads. Anyone have any observations to offer on seasonality of post cold front fishing? Thoughts? Comments? Observations?
  16. Long Mike, You are very welcome. Happy we share an interest. The natural world is sure fascinating, and all the observing has certainly helped my fishing -by putting into proper context what all the technique stuff is for! ba7, Do you remember what time of day you saw that intense spawning behavior?
  17. First of all, I agree with WRB: My guess is what you saw was a breaching carp. They do that A LOT during their spawn. I've never seen bass leap clear unless hooked, occasionally when attacking a topwater, or chasing dragonflies (little bass). I have seen a number of anglers over the years mistaking breaching carp for bass -me included once upon a time. Bass chasing preyfish may break top but this is usually a boil or surge, sometimes with preyfish leaping clear. Breaching carp jump clear, and often repeatedly. S'more on "cruising bass": In bass, cruising means swimming easily along, at or below the surface, singly or, more often, in groups. Bass do this for a number of reasons, depending on season. Cruisers are most often mentioned (with associated frustrations) in the spring. In general, bass are most catchable when feeding; Cruising is sometimes, but not always, associated with feeding. Early spring into pre-spawn: The first "cruisers" I see are post-winter to pre-spawn females, when still grouped up following winter. I call these cruisers parades female groups slowly cruising in a string. These I've been mostly unsuccessful catching from, but this may be that I've alarmed them. They do appear sluggish, or calm, though, and apparently not in an active hunting mode. These may be moon related too, and therefore, a (pre-mature) spawning related activity. But I'm not certain what this is yet. This tends to be an early to mid pre-spawn thing, although I did once see an apparent parade (during a full moon) associated with an intense and properly timed spawning event. Nearer the spawn these groups tend to break up, and many may be seen cruising alone. These visible individual females, either "cruising" or holding, are heat soaking. These fish are more difficult to catch, in part because they heat soak near the surface in high visibility conditions, and also I believe, they may simply be more interested in garnering heat, then hunting. Closer to the spawn I've found both males and females more difficult to interest in lures, in general. These late pre-spawn fish seem to be shifted less toward feeding and more toward spawning sites. They are catchable but it may take some coaxing. Spawn: During the very start of the actual spawning window (egg dropping) both males and females can be seen cruising, often rapidly. Males cruise widely around their beds waiting for females to corral in, what I call escorting. Females cruise spawning banks looking to be escorted in. Interestingly, I believe females light up at his time alter their color. Doug Hannon mentions seeing this in floridanus' and I believe I've seen it in northern's. They take on a vivid aqua blue-green sheen. This is a short-lived phenomenon it seems. Escorting may occur more in the evening although I've got more observing to do to see if this holds. These rapidly cruising females and soliciting males are highly excited and are both very susceptible to lures. Late in the spawn window I often see females hanging around a bed with a locked male that's obviously guarding eggs. It's possible she will attempt to drop eggs with the male but I wonder whether the males allow it. Since egg hatching is timed with water temperature, late-dropped eggs should not be properly timed, unless the water temperature is high enough to make up the difference. Regardless, these hanger's on females as I call them, often partially spawned out, are very catchable as they cruise a lazy circuit around the bed. These fish seem less spooky than other cruisers as if doped up on hormones, or maybe, simply hungry. From post-spawn on through summer and well into fall, cruising is common, in fact it's the way most active bass hunt in loose hunting groups that cruise together along cover breaks hoping to corner or flush prey. These fish are very catchable, of course. But, they are also often very spook-able, especially in high visibility conditions -when we tend to see them. In general, I think one of the difficulties anglers have with cruising bass, and where a lot of the frustration comes from, is that visible cruising bass, often seen under brighter high visibility conditions, are just plain easy to put off, if not downright spook. In the public waters I fish, under bright sun such bass will likely bolt at the lure or line landing anywhere near them. Under dimmer conditions they may not spook at the splashdown, but anglers get to see first hand how bass respond to their presentations. It's frustrating to know that a lot of bass just aren't fooled, and that subtle things may trigger them, or put them off. Everyone should spend some time sight-fishing to cruising bass. It'll forever change the way you approach likely fishing spots.
  18. DON"T let the weather put you off. Confidence is easily shaken and can do you in, even though there are fish to be caught. Dress for it. Fish slower, and maybe a bit deeper. But if front is weak don't be afraid to try faster first. OK, I'll be bold and offer some more specific suggestions: Not sure about S IL exactly but your fish should be into pre-spawn. If it were warm I'd be checking the shallows for males and broken up female groups, but with a strong front most may be holding away from shore a bit -likely true of females. Move around: If female groups haven't broken up yet, (we're late seasonally across the north this year, so, maybe?), you'll need to find 'em. Don't be put off with the cold damp air and an hour or two of few fish. If you find a female group you may get all your big fish in a half hour. Then come back and milk the spot. Look for a good flat, one that looks like it will hold bass throughout the year. Especially if it is in a discrete cove, end, or corner -more confined that's easier to read and has less real estate to cover, and that you can reach (if you're on shore). Check the shallows -cooling air doesn't always put the bass off too badly. (Try a #11 or #13 floating Rapala, twitched. Easy to fish and very effective if bass are shallow, and willing to break the surface.) If no go, try subsurface. Then start searching further out, away from shore a ways (jig, crank, jerk, spinnerbait). If it's a cove, check out in the mouth of it. Let us know what you find.
  19. LowBudget, Recognizing, interpreting, and adapting to, conditions. I've never won a trophy, but then it's only me out there. I tried the trophy thing but I felt silly presenting it to myself. I still have it, am proud of it, but I feel bad when I do get skunked and have to take it away from myself. I was Rookie of the Year once, but that only happens once in my circuit.
  20. Too little info. Fishing success (and failure -if you want to call it that) revolves around a cascade of real events that you track at diff scales: genetic, seasonal, local, immediate, contianing a host of characters (food web). Tracking those events is difficult bc we just can't be out there that often. Rain likely represents a change. Good or bad depends. Rain might be good (associated with overcast and sometimes wind,...). Rain can be bad (temp drop, excessive wind,...
  21. It's probably not the lures, it's likely location. You may be dealing with deeper water, pelagic oriented reservoir bass, compared to your weedy natural lakes. Don't freak out, they're still bass. Read, talk to locals, burn some gas.
  22. PJ, First, get a copy of the In-fisherman "Handbook of Strategies", either largemouth, smallmouth, or both. This is a great starter. Along with A LOT more, it'll give you regional ballpark's on your question. More locally: Small shallow waters warm (and cool) quicker than larger ones. Diff can be a month or more, dependent on volume of water, distribution and configurations of shallow areas in the given water body. Good luck. Enjoy! -Paul
  23. Recognition Interpretation Adaptation Lures?: Versatility
  24. 1. Mother Nature, when she "acts up". Of course, the bass then have a paralell problem! 2. I just don't know it ALL.
  25. Read! -articles in this site -In-Fisherman "Handbook of Strategies" (species specific) -In-Fisherman magazine -BassMaster magazine
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