paul.

slowly but surely, the weather is getting a little better here. thought i'd give it a try today for a little while. i was fortunate to have along a very special guest for this outing, my little niece macey. she showed uncle paul how it was done with this good 'un here. way to go girl.

i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that texas could produce a world record. texas certainly seems to try harder than anyone else to have a quality fishery for trophy bass. it still amazes me that the big bass production we've seen in cali has been purely by accident through the decision to stock trout many years ago. could trout survive in texas waters well enough to become a viable trophy bass food source? or could they survive at all in texas? trout are cold water fish and texas is awfully hot. but i don't know. i'm asking. texas has seemed to place a lot of emphasis on the stocking of fish with quality genetics, but that seems to be only a part of the equation. the key seems to be in stocking adequate food for them munch on. i guess what i'm asking is whether it's a quality or quantity issue with the forage in texas. is an 8 inch trout really that much better of a food source than an 8 inch shad or and 8 inch bluegill? are trout easier for the bass to catch? these are things i've always wondered. i've also wondered if texas has any plans to cut back or alter the tournament fishing there. a few more big fish kills and it will set things back big time in some of the better lakes over there. i can't imagine they would change anything though because tournaments seem to be big business over there.

well i've found my inspiration for springtime fishing now. what a toad man! that is awesome.

a couple of questions for thought: do ya'll think that with all the scrutiny there will ever be a bulletproof, airtight certification of a world record bass? this record seems to have become almost sacred. will perry's mark stand forever? this record and more specifically the guys who chase it seem to polarize people in their opinions. either they are adored almost to the point of worship (i understand mike long has a cult following in japan) or they are hated, ridiculed, and distrusted. when it's all said and done, how do y'all think history will judge the man who finally breaks perry's mark? the rewards that will come with this record will be nice. but when it comes right down to it do y'all think that anyone who is seriously chasing the fish is doing it for any reason other than just to be the one who caught it? i mean these guys have achieved almost celebrity or rock star status. but it comes with a price. all the secrecy they have to maintain inevitably leads people to believe they are cheating or lying somehow. otherwise why wouldn't there be pictures? if there are pictures, why don't they show up until months or years later? why are the backgrounds altered? why can't they "prove" any of the things they've supposedly done? these are only a few of the questions these guys have to deal with on a regular basis i'm sure. i can't see another reason in the world (other than monetary perhaps) that someone would want to chase this record. it would have to be simply because they wanna be the guy who catches it.

good luck to all of y'all that get to go this weekend. lookin' forward to the posts in the trip section.

thanks man. i have only read small parts of the book while at the bookstore. i don't own it. i've thought seriously about buying it though. monte burke, the guy who wrote it, was on the national geographic documentary. you are totally right in saying it's a game. a very tough one to play, and one only a select and gifted few can master. matt, wrb, jay, fish chris, and some others on here have lived through it. i'm sure they could tell us some stories that would be almost unbelievable. these guys have a skill that i can only dream of. a good fisherman can pattern the fish. a great one can pattern the fish and the other fisherman.

interesting observations about the mentality of these guys. i guess working in the field of mental health, the psychology of the true trophy hunter has always intrigued me. it takes something special to do what these guys do day in and day out. whether that something special is a bad thing or a good thing, everyone has to judge for themselves i guess. but i have seen time and again what big fish will do to people. so much is written about what we do to these fish. so little is written about what they do to us. the documentary that started this whole thread, and other things i have read about these guys, portray them as totally obsessed and possessed in the pursuit of big bass. it's one thing to try to schedule your fishing around your life, quite another to schedule your life around your fishing. i have read about guys sacrificing untold amounts of money, marriages, health, friends, jobs, etc. for just one more cast. the closest thing i can compare it to is a drug of some kind. they give up so much to chase the dream, a dream with absolutely no promises or guarantees. they become distrusting of other fishermen, sometimes people in general, almost to the point of paranoia. they develop strange notions of entitlement to and ownership of a wild creature that belongs to no one. they worry so much about the fish they don't catch, they can't fully appreciate or enjoy the ones they do. to the casual observer, these guys are absolutely crazy doing what they do. the trophy hunters themselves would probably tell you they'd go crazy if they didn't. that is why i could never do the trophy hunting thing full time. i will never be anything more that a wannabe. sometimes honestly i don't like what it does to me. for every day of triumph, there are untold days of frustration. the high never lasts as long as it did the time before. all of us who are serious about it are at least to some degree different folks in april than we are in december. look what happens to some folks' attitude here on the board when we can't fish if you need further proof. sometimes you fool yourself into thinking you can jump into this trophy hunting game and nothing will change. then everything changes. it comes with a price. then again, maybe i'm just trying to keep you away from my fish.

i gotta say that at least to me, this has been one of the coolest threads on here in a long time. interesting to me that it started off with questions on fishing ethics (is it o.k. to offer someone money for a shot at a fish, etc.) and now it has come full circle. i guess i can see why mac and jed took the lie as an insult. because long's timing (after dickerson caught the fish) kinda/sorta insinuates that dickerson might have done something to kill the fish. mishandled or hurt it somehow. after all, he was the last one to catch it before long concocted the story. did long purposely take a shot at dickerson while at the same time trying to mislead a horde of trophy hunters? who knows. but i can see why they took offense. i have read that long and these 3 guys are not exactly best of friends. but here, within this same story is another ethical dilemma. is it o.k. to tell a fishing lie for the sake of money or a big fish? how about not necessarily lying, but maybe just misleading or not telling the whole truth? at what point is it o.k. to sacrifice your integrity? or is it ever? different answers for different folks i guess. i hear polygraph tests are administered at some tournaments now. wonder if this will become standard before before being able to claim a state, world, or line class record as well? seems like the higher the stakes, the bigger the temptation to lie. seems some guys think it's not a big deal to lie in certain fishing scenarios and they are definitely entitled to their opinion. i guess i'd rather be known as a bad fisherman than a great liar.

here is the story matt is referring to, or at least one of them. i had just forgotten it was long who started the story. Huge bass found dead at Lake Dixon By Ed Zieralski San Diego UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER Excerpt from: HUNTING/FISHING REPORT November 26, 2003 ...Dixon: Big news here is that the historic 21.70-pound bass caught by Jed Dickerson of Carlsbad on May 31 may have gone to big bass heaven. Poway's Mike Long was called in by some trout anglers who found a huge bass floating. Long retrieved the long-dead bass and checked it. He said it was hard to tell, but he believes it's the same bass that Dickerson caught and released in May, and the same one Long himself caught and released in 2001. It's sporting the same black dot on the lower side of its left cheek that Long identified from pictures in June. Long released it as a 20.75-pounder; Dickerson landed it as a 21.70-pounder, now listed as the fourth-heaviest largemouth bass ever caught in the U.S. Long did some post-mortem work, peeling some scales off the dead lunker and measuring it. The bass was 27½ inches long, the same length as Dickerson's bass. Long was storing it in a freezer at a friend's home, but was ordered to get it out because it was stinking up the freezer even though Long wrapped it in a bunch of garbage bags. ... UPDATE: Mike later recanted this story as he said he came up with it to stop the hordes from coming in to fish for the world record at the lake. This is especially true since she was caught again 3 years later (recognized by black dot again) and now weighed in at 23#+!!!. here is the link: http://www.seewald.com/california_state_record_largemouth_black_bass.htm

muddy i think i remember reading that there was a rumor intentionally circulated that dottie had been found dead shortly after the second time she was caught . supposedly it was to take the heat off the fish (dottie) and the lake. i'm not sure if the weakly, wynn, dickerson trio was behind this or not. somebody with a faster computer than me can probably find it somewhere. obviously it was not true because she was caught again at the 25 pound mark. i think dottie was caught 3 times, once by mike long, once by dickerson, and finally by weakly. 2 out of those 3 times, she was allegedly a world record. but what if those boys have staged this whole national geographic thing, faked the photos, and conned the entire world? what if she's still out there and these dudes have manipulated the media to pull off the ultimate bassin' hoax? now THAT would be a brooklyn move. ;D ;D ;D

i think this is a picture of wrb with a replica mount of the bass he has been talking about. not sure though. correct me if i'm wrong wrb.

but the biggest question still remains:WHY ISN'T THERE A CERTIFIED SCALE AT THE LAKE????? just messin' with ya bro. sounds like you need to go fishing matt. ;D

i agree totally with this. the guy who catches it better be ready to kill it if he wants it to hold up. i think things have just gotten way too crazy for any fish that is released alive, no matter how big, to stand up to all the scrutiny and controversy. of course in today's "catch and release" era, killing the fish is going to present it's own set of problems.

california: home of the biggest bass and the dumbest bass fishing regulations.

i also view consistency and adaptability as the big keys to determine how "good" a fisherman is over the long haul. but i guess i just don't have as much of a "big picture" view of it as some of y'all do. i have always kind of gone by the philosophy that a fisherman is only as good as his last trip. all of us, regardless of our knowledge, skill, experience, or lack thereof, are sometimes good fishermen. sometimes we are just o.k. sometimes we suck. your next state record could be caught by a highly skilled and experienced guy with thousands and thousands of dollars worth of gear and sponsors. it could also be caught be an 11 year old kid with a 20 dollar combo using a nightcrawler or a minnow. perhaps this is what we call luck. or perhaps it just comes down to who was a better fisherman that day.

i agree with catt. sometimes i think all the doubting goes overboard and hurts the sport and the reputation of fishermen in general. we have an "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy in this country. but sometimes that doesn't seem to apply to bass fishing where at times, particularly with big fish, it's "guilty until proven innocent". i have no reason at all to doubt perry, crupi, duclos, weakley, dickerson, etc. after all there is some evidence to validate their catches. sometimes i think those who do doubt or criticize are just bitter or jealous. i can usually accept evidence, even just a little sometimes, to support someone's claims fairly easily and view their story as credible. it's outrageous claims with no evidence to back them up that i sometimes have a problem with. but even then, that might be error on my part.

to me this brings up another interesting issue. the bar seems to have been raised so high on what is considered "valid" that i wonder if ANY bass or the lucky angler who caught it could withstand all the scrutiny it would take nowadays to become a "legitimate" world record. seems that the world record largemouth has become the most coveted prize in all of sport fishing. any fish that seems to come close to the magic mark, along with the guy who catches it, seem to be almost instantly and hopelessly mired in controversy. first comes the barrage of questions about its weight, the accuracy of the process by which it was weighed, whether the fish's measurements support the claimed weight, and the legitimacy of the witnesses it was weighed in front of. IF the catch comes through that gauntlet unscathed, next come the questions about the legitimacy of the catch itself. was it caught legally? did the angler "cheat" somehow? were there witnesses to the actual catch? how credible are said witnesses? on and on the list goes. funny thing about us fisherman. we hate to have our own catches questioned and tend to get pretty p.o.'d or at the very least defensive when someone does question our catches. yet we seem to be very quick to question or doubt another angler's catch. i've seen it happen time and time again here on this board. just human nature i guess. but it seems that the bigger the fish is, the bigger the controversy is. as a group, it seems we become more and more skeptical as time goes on. the catch of dottie when she wieghed 25 pounds is only the latest controversy. before that crupi's and duclos' bass were questioned. not to mention perry's world record itself, which is probably the most controversial fish of all time. personally, i think the next guy who catches the world record is going to have no choice but to kill the fish if he wants to claim the record. even then it will probably be difficult. and of course the "lucky" angler will be crucified, demonized, and hated for killing it. they will have to endure nagging questions from doubters and haters for the rest of their days. even though they will undoubtedly become instantly rich, it kind of makes you wonder how "lucky" they will really be. so ironic. it's a no win situation, but one we would all love to be in.

there are really 2 issues with fishing pressure, one of which people usually overlook. the first is the quantity of fishing pressure - i.e. how many people fish the lake in question. but to me the second issue, the one that is overlooked, is perhaps an even bigger factor. that is the quality of the fishing pressure. i would 10-1 rather fish a lake that is pressured by 50 novices than i would one that is pressured by 25 "sticks". when you take a look at the pressure cali receives, you must also factor in the quality of the fishermen there - particularly in a world record scenario. the "hot" lakes in cali not only get hammered by average joe fisherman. they get hit by guys like long, kerr, dickerson, etc. these guys are the best in the world at what they do. they SPECIALIZE in catching trophies. they are not trying to win a tournament. they are not trying to catch a nice fish or even a fish that most of us would consider the "fish of a lifetime". they are after THE fish and they have honed their skills to a razor edge to specifically target big bass. so the big bass in cali not only see a ton of lures, they see a ton of lures from the best trophy fishermen on the planet. i'm not saying that texas does not have any great trophy hunter fishermen, b/c i'm sure they do. matter of fact, i know of at least 2 good ones on this very board. but the best trophy hunters are in cali b/c the best trophy bass are in cali. if my goal was simply to catch a 10- 13 pound bass and i had to choose between texas and cali, i wouldn't even have to think about it. it'd be texas for sure. but to try (and i emphasize TRY) to catch a 20, i'd be a fool not to go to cali simply because that's the only place 20 pounders have been legitimately caught. but since i'm a poor boy, i guess i'll just stay here in tennessee and continue to wish and hope. ;D this is a cool discussion.

excellent outing! way to go dude.

kent i am also a huge fan of the xr50. these little baits are incredible! i also love the one knocker from xcalibur. i too have found that one particular type/brand of rattlebait will smoke other types some days. the next day the one that was hot will get smoked one of the types it whipped the day before. go figure. one that i have yet to try, but i definitely will, is the new clackin' rap. it looks awesome. has anyone gotten one of these yet? http://www.rapala.com/how2tv/ just lookin' at the vid makes me wanna order 10 of 'em. i really think this will be a hot bait this year. they have some really nice colors too.

That is the best thing said in this thread. i don't know about the best thing said, but i also found it very interesting when george questioned dr. keith jones' motives, hinting that money might have been one of them. i found it even more interesting when the next day george made this statement: hmmmmm.......... what possible reason could a bass guide have for saying the bass he knows about and fishes for are "dumb as rocks"? (particularly in the same sentence he mentions his 50 years of experience :) could the answer be, oh i dunno, just going out on a limb here - MONEY???!!! cuts both ways don't it? do i think george is a fine bass fisherman? absolutely. much better than i ever hope to be. do i think he's a shrewd businessman? without a doubt

i wish it was. trust me, if it was even a little warmer outside, i wouldn't have spent nearly this much time on this issue. ;D

catt, if you would be so kind, please provide answers to the following simple questions. you may or may not know the "exact" answer to some of these questions but do the best you can. you have criticized and questioned the data in this thread, claiming it to be invalid, so we will use your own data. i have no clue what your answers will be, and yet i am fairly confident that we will draw one of two inevitable conclusions, both of which will be equally unsettling to you. 1. your age. 2. the state of the union in which you live. 3. how many years have you fished within the state where you live? 4. estimate of how many different bodies of water have you fished at least 10 times within the state where you live. 5. name of the lake within your state where you have fished the most within the past 5+ years and/or consider yourself the most familiar with - i.e your "home lake". 6. estimated total time in years/ months you have spent fishing your "home lake". 7. estimated average amount of fishing trips you have made on your "home lake" per year since you started fishing there (estimated total # of times you have fished the lake divided by total years fished.) 8. estimated average length of fishing trip (on the average, in hours, how long do you spend on the water when you go fishing?) 9. how many types of baits do you fish with any regularity? (a "type" of bait would be a "category" of bait - i.e. lipless crank, jig, etc.) 10. your honest assessment of your own overall fishing experience level . (choose one of the following: novice, intermediate, experienced) 11. the weight of your personal best bass from your "home lake". 12. date you caught your personal best bass from your "home lake". 13. number of fish you have caught within 8 oz. of your personal best bass from your "home lake" 14. weight of the lake record from your "home lake" 15. weight of your state record bass.

wow! i have no idea who the "best" angler on this site is, but the title of "stubbornest" is undisputed and uncontested. tommy, i have suddenly developed an overwhelming and deep respect for your family. they must be very special people indeed. ;D ;D ;D i have never met you or fished with you (although i'd like to one day ). i have never seen the water you fish. (but i don't think it's a small pond ) and yet i believe that if you will provide me with a few simple, key pieces of information that maybe, just maybe you might re-think your position on how "smart" bass really are. i believe that using simple, undeniable logic i might even be able to get you to at least consider that you yourself have to some degree been a victim of bass "intelligence". i hesitate to say i will convince you, because it's pretty obvious that's not gonna happen. question is, are you game?

i guess i assumed you had a good reason to be that close. maybe you got there first, maybe the terrain forced you to be that close, maybe there was a crowd of other people fishing, etc. you get the picture. if you had a good reason to be that close, i stick by my original answer. if not, then i agree with these guys. you probably were too close. particularly if the other guy had the spot first and you moved in on him.