Mattlures

I have had no contact with the mods on that post at all so I dont wany anybody to think I was whining or crying to them. It does look funny now without Frank's posts. Like I am arguing with myself, ha ha. Its all good. I hope somebody got some usefull info from the post.

As a bait maker, I strive to make the most realistic bait possible. The problem is The more realistic it looks, the leass realistic it acts. The more realistic it swims the less realistic it looks. Its a compromise. In order for a bait to swim it needs something to make it swim. Those things are what makes it look Unnatural like joints, bills, swimming tails, etc so I try to invision how I want to use a specific bait and then I do what I can to mask those unnatural looking parts of the baits. The aplication of the bait dictates how much compromise. I also agree with the changing the word hatch to forrage or prey and I assumed everybody knows the when talking about bass fishing instead of trout, That hatch does mean forrage.

I would think you best bet might be to try and make one. I did a search on Ebay for fake bird and you get 12 of these for $16. That eneough to experiment and ruin a few before you figure out a good way to rig one. http://cgi.ebay.com/Artificial-Bird-Decorative-birds-Fake-Bird-New-12-pc-/350290080351?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item518eea725f

I want to go fishing with you guys! Actualy after looking at the background of that pic, I want to go hunting there!

Seriously dont take my word for it because I am obviously bias. But if you have some PVC glue and accitone laying around give it a try. You will see what I am talking about. I will say its not worth buying those just to experiment though. Funny thing is if I knew nothing about this subject, the first thing I would do is run out and try and prove me wrong so you wort hurt my feelings if you go experimenting !!

WRONG!!!!!!! I know because I invented Mend-it. Then I sold it. PVC cement is NOT the same thing and its NOT nearly just as effective. Take two baits and glue them together with pvc glue and see what happens. They will "stick" together but the bond is weak. If you pull on them, they will seperate at the seam. Mend-it will not seperate. If you pull hard enough to rip the baits apart it will tear as if it was never repaired before, like it was new Another test. Take a worm and put some pvc glue on it. Let it cure. Now see if you can peal it off. You most likley can. You absolutley can not peal the Mend-it off. It is a different chemical. Again I know this for a fact because I know what I used to make Mend-it. Go ahead and thin the pvc glue with accetone and report back on how good it works. I know the answer. Believe me I tried many chemicals and combinations until I found the right formula. BTW PVC glue is not an ingredient in Mend-it. Smells similar but not the same.

It does seem that most of us are willing to pay more for quality. I will give you an example of when I paid WAY more then normal. I have always wanted the perfect buzzbait. I found a couple good ones but my best one( a Bass pro titanium) was discontinued. I tried to find a suitible replacement but I couldnt. Then one day at a show I found the perfect Buzzbait. It was $17. I put it down and walked away. As I walked through the show I started thinking about it. How often do I loose Buzzers? Never. How long do my regular buzzers last? not that long because they go bad once the blade wears through the rivet. Then I started thinking about how many buzzers I bought looking for a great one. Probably a dozzen and I probably spent at least $50 on that dozzen that couldnt replace my favorite. So I found one that knew was perfect. I knew it would last longer and perform better then any other and that $17 didnt seem so absurd anymore. I went back and bought it and I still have it and its the ONLY one I use. I have probably caught 50-100 bass on it and its still in great shape. I got what I paid for and it was worth every penny. Now I can tell you out of the 12 buzzers that were just ok, some of the cheap $3 baits were every bit as good as the $10 baits but none matched the $17 one. In this case the most expencive one was the best deal for me but this is not always the case. Actualy its almost never the case for me. However when I recognize something that I know is better and will make a real differance then I make myself buy it. BTW I HAVE ZERO AFFILIATION WITH THAT BUZZBAIT CO.

Good Point Roger!

I figured I would start a new thread so Senkosam could debate the subject he realy wants to argue about. BUT I would like to hear your guys's opinion of expencive lures. I will use what gives me the best chance at success and what I have the most confidence in even if it cost more as long as it produces better results. If I find a cheaper alternative that works just as well then I will use that. However it does seem that in most cases the better quality lures cost more. There are exceptions though. I like Rapala and they are a bargin compaired to other similar baits.

For me its the moment I realize its big. Thats when My heart starts pounding. When I am not catching anything big, then its the bite and hook set because I am hoping its big

Try all the ones you have and see which one gets bit. Once you find something that is working you can experiment with variations of size and color.

I would recomend hiring a well respected guide. Explain to him your situation and what you would like to learn. If you get a good guide, that day on the water will take months, maybe even years of the learning curve. It will also make it easier to relate to the articles and books you will be reading.

Frank have you even read any of my posts in this thread?? you are sooo wrong and far out there and you are attempting to put words in my mouth to win your argument. What is wrong with you? Are you for real? Fist the original post asked about matching the hatch. I gave my opinion about it. My theory about how in certain situations it can make a good day be a great day. I never said anything about other techniques. YOU DID!!!! Then you came on attempting to twist it into selling something. I NEVER SAID NOT TO USE ANY OTHER TECHNIQUE. Were do you come up with this stuff???? I gave my mindset of when and how I use match the hatch(you know the original topic) All you keep trying to do is turn this thread into an attack on me and bash expencive lures. I gave examples of inexpencive lures that match the hatch. I have said over and over that all the other techniques are great and I use them. I never said anything negative about any other technique or style of fishing. Yet you keep trying to turn it into that. Why dont you reread everything and see. You have added nothing productive to this thread. All you have done is to say you dont need expencive baits. THIS THREAD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EXPECIVE BAITS!!!!!!!!!!!! Its about matching the hatch. You can match the hatch with a fly, with a frog, with a homemade lure. The idea it to match what the bass are feeding on in size shape action and color. If you do a good job of matching these then you can have a very good day. You have the potential to fool fish that you probably wouldnt normaly catch. Small bass eat what ever they can fit in there mouths. As they get older and after they have been caught a few times, they sense danger. They make fewer mistakes.In order to consistantly catch these older bigger bass, we as anglers need to make fewer mistakes in our approach. Ok come back with your dribble about bill dance, expencive lures,senkos,catching bluegill and any other subject wich has nothing to do with matching the hatch. You have lost. All you can do is to try and continue to change the post into something you can argue about.

Steve, you are an animal. Keep sticken it to em. How often do you fish?? I am jealous. I want to be able to play that much.

To add a little more. Matching the hatch is not always important. There are many times when small and mid sized fish are activly feeding. Matching the hatch may actuly catch you less fish then other techniques. Also other techniqes are good thats why they work. Thats why guys fish cranks and spinnerbaits etc. Because they do work and definatley have their place. I hope none of you think I am disputing this or knocking them. They have also caught many big bass. My whole point was to say that 'Matching the Hatch" is usualy a very important factor when it comes to hunting the biggest bass. it is not overrated. Its not always neccasary but at times it can make a big differance.

You're assuming alot! 1. Soft plastic frogs are usually generic in appearance and not species specific - no hatch there 2. Soft plastic frogs are usually one of two sizes - no match there 3. Hard plastic frogs, even with a photo finish, don't move like a frog - no match there 4. Areas where frogs are hit usually are weed beds such as pads and pretty much one of 20 baits will get hit depending on time of day and weather - no need to matc I said in certain situations when bullrog tadpoles turn into frogs is when I have seen the bass feeding on them. At this time your standard hollow frog is the same size. Working it over a mat in a frog like action is matching the forrage they are feeding on. THE HATCH Of the clubs you belong to, how many anglers follow your discipline of using scent on hard baits (haven't heard anyone doing that in ten years!), always use f/c line, shut their sonars off, etc. and still whip your **** and catch lunkers to win the tournament. How is it that the top five anglers in clubs I've belonged to do none of the above and still kick **** with yearly totals of better than 60lbs?!! In NY no less! I dont belong to any clubs and I dont fish freashwater tournaments. And I rarley put scent on hard baits and I fish sorft baits 90% of time. with the amount of days that I fish now being about 20-30 days freash water a year my success on big bas is very high. I use to fish 100+ days a year but havent done that in a couple years. So far this year I think I have been bass fishing about 8 times. I have 5 big bass this year, 3 of them over 10, and 1 just an ounce off and the other about a pound short. Pretty good percentages on catching big bass, I would say. I dont fish for the small bass. If I did I could make all the mistakes and get away with it. Small fish are dumb and make many mistakes. You believe that doing the above and using your special lures accounts for your success as well as matching brains with a fishthat most times strikes a lure just because..... Congratulations on your success and mine, both of us which catch limits and lunkers for different personal reasons and choices. Your fish might bite lures just because but the fish I am hunting are the biggest oldes fish in the lakes. THEY DO NOT STRIKE JUST BEACAUSE. You take your approach and try it here in our super pressured, small, gin clear waters and you would not have the success your used to, let alone cathing something over 5lbs The point about lure expense is economical - why spend 70-80 cents for a Senkos when YUM dingers work as well if not better at half the price or my own at 1/4 the price. People want to believe Senkos are far superior than knockoffs. Not!!! The thread has nothing to with Senkos, again you are just trying to argue. At this point all you can do is claim, I am trying to sell expecive lures which is not the case. I am selling the thery of "match the hatch" and fish with as few mistakes as possible to catch the biggest oldest most experianced, weary bass in the lakes. There are many good crankbaits half what yours cost that do the job just fine. I'd be interested in a poll of anglers that have compared your plugs to others such as Lucky Craft with similar body and bill designs (though with a different finish)and see how they match up over a few years. HA HA HA.....HA oh man now thats funny. I dont make crank baits. I dont use crank baits. And as I stated in my last post that when I used to fish them I preffered Rapalas with the silver foiled finish. There is no crankbait like my lures that I use. WOW YOU MISSED WITH THIS STATEMENT ha ha ha. Confidence will always be a factor regardless of equipment used and if I can spend half the cash on lures I quickly develop confidence in under certain conditions, I'll buy them and save some money for other tackle. I don't own expensive rods and reels, but do quite well in the waters I fish against those that have spent big bucks. Good line, good reflexes, sharp hooks and the right action rod and lure - simple as that! And again your attempting to turn your argument into a spending money issue. It has almost mothing to do with it. You have missed the point agian. This is becomeing redundant. I feel as though I am aguing with a drunk person. Confidence comes with success. Are you confident in your ability to catch a trophy bass relative to your area?? Probably not. Your confidence and success most likely comes from catching small to mid sized bass that are much easier to catch. When I used the frog bait as an example, my point was to show that you dont always need an expencive bait to match the hatch. I will admit that many of the most realistic baits are not cheap, but when you are trying to catch the most weary bass, using an ultra realistic lure does make a differance. Why dont you ask any trophy bass hunter what they think of a Huddleston trout comparred to a Reaction strike bass harrasser. Acording to your argument they should work just as good as long as you have confidence. HA HA. Confidence comes from success. The fewer mistakes you make in your presentation the more success you will have. Oh and 1 more point. You brought up clubs and tournament fisherman. Ever notice how few big bass are caught durring tournaments? I beleive KVD's personal biggest bass is an 11lber. The best tournament fisherman in the world is reduced to average tournament guy when it comes to big bass. Ever notice how he struggles when the fish are eating swimbaits at one of his tournaments? The guys who win those tournaments realize its important to match what the bass normaly feed on. KVD chooses to not adjust and fish his regular techniques. In these specific instances, his competitors are out fishing him. Doesnt happen often but it does happen and there is a pattern. I will say it for the 100dth time. Small bass are easier to catxh then big ones. You can keep telling yourself that they are all stupid and all you have to do is find the right location but millions of anglers know this is not true. Location is important as it gives you a chance but thats all it does. Making that trophy bass actualy bite is where all the other things become very important. So in summery Senkosam's entire argument is.....Matching the hatch is overrated because cheap lure work just as good as expencive ones. OK Frank of course this is a completly different subject but your trying as hard as you can to make it the same. It s not working.

Frank, its not a sales pitch, its a mindset or a strategy. In Matt's perfect fishing world there is a big bass. She is sitting out there waiting. A fish(insert species) swims by that she has been eating latley and she eats it just like the other ones she has been eating. I set the hook and catch her. She never heard me, she didnt see the line or hooks or even saw my shadow. The food(the lure) she ate smelled and taisted right. It looked real it swam real. She had no clue or sense of danger. She blasted it. This is what I strive for. Of course its impossible but the closer you get to it, the more succesful you are especialy with big bass. Small bass are stupid and you can make alot of mistakes. Big bass arent fooled nearly as aesy. I use fluoro, I use scent(I make my own)I beach my boat and throw from shore. I turn off my electronics.I try and hide my hooks.I try not to cast shadows. I am quiet. The more things I do right the better my odds are of catching a big bass. the more things I do wrong the more my odds go down. Using the most realistic bait and fishing it as stealthy as I can has worked for me. Matching the hatch(prey species) is a big part of this. I actualy belive that one of the reasons guys dont catch big bass is because they do too many things wrong . They put those big bass on alert. They may be fishing in the right place at the right time but becuas they did too many things wrong the big ones didnt bite. They caught the little ones instead. People just dont give big bass enough credit. Yes they still make mistakes but not nearly as often as the little ones. Now on the flipside when I am using baits that I consider non realistic such as crankbaits, or jerk baits I want them to look generic. I dont want details or realistic finish. I want that Rapale foiled silver finish. When I throw jigs, I dont want eyes or detail. I want simple. Same with my soft plastics. This has worked much better for me. I want my realistic baits to be ultra realistic and my non realsitic baits to be simple. Wrap your head around that.

Frank you are off out in left field. You are assuming I am trying to sell my lures, and or expencive lures. This is not the case at all, you have missed the point. My point is IF YOU ARE MATCHING THE HATCH (PREY SPECIES) WHEN AND WHERE THE BASS ARE FEEDING ON THAT PREY YOU HAVE THE BEST CHANCES OF SUCCESS ESPECIALY ON BIG BASS. Frog baits arent expencive and when the bullfrog tadpoles turn into small frogs the bass eat them. The frog bait matches well and gets bit well. Its not about being gulible, Its about making your presentation as natural and realitic as possible to get the biggest bites. This is not the only way to do it as I have caught many big bass on buzzbaits. It seems your saying the matching the hatch is overrated because sombody is trying to sell you something. What I am saying is that most guys do a poor job of matching the hatch when they think they are doing a good job. Its not about buying an expesive lure. And NEVER did I say that other baits dont work great. Of course they do. I have caught more bass on plastic worms then any other bait. However I have caught very few over 7lbs on plastics. If your so concerned about the price and being sold something from a pro, then make a bait that matches the prey in size color and action and if you do an accurate enough job you should be able to take it to a lake and have great results.

I will try to explain it to you 1 more time but I am prety sure you are arguing just to argue. First Realism and natural are 2 differnt things. At least when I use thos terms they have two differnt meanings. Realistic lures imitate something specific. A bluegill swimbait that I consider realistic is imitating an actual bluegill. Same with the dragon flie bait, Huddle bugs, and other realistic lures. When I say natural, I am talking about a bait such as a jig. A jig is not realistic. It doesnt look much like a crawdad. BUT it is natural looking. It looks like an underwater creature. It doesnt look out of place. Just like creature baits and worms etc. Now what you seem to be missing is there is very little black and white. Baits arent realistic or not. Some are very realistic and some are not realistic at all but most fall somewhere inbetween. When I say a bait is realistic and matches the hatch, I mean the bait can do this with minimal efforf from the angler. I have caught fish and huge ones from doing nothing but letting a very realistic bait just sit there. Its only movements being caused by a slight ripple on the water. Many times the fish will rise and inspect the bait several times before commiting. In those cases the realism of the bait was THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR. When a bait such as a fluke has to be worked fast and hard in order to creat the illusion of realism then its the angler, not so much the bait. This is why a reaction bite is soo differnt then a carefuly exicuted retrieve that produces a feeding bite. Sam I made my point and I am confident that you got it yet you want to argue. Maybe you feel you have to win?? You do realize that this subject is all opinion right? I can suport my argument with many cases of success. Not just mine but all the guys I know who hunt for the biggest bass in thier lakes. You can continue to disagree and argue and try and post quotes to contradict me but Like I said the proof is in fish.

A couple more things. A jig by itself is natural but not realistic. However once you start crawling it of jerking it back like a fleeing craw then it becomes much more realistic. And I have caught fish on swimbaits that were not moving, or only slightly moving. I beleive the reaism sealed the deal. And for those saying that depth,action,location is more important, well duh of course it is. That does not however mean that realism or matching the prey is not important. It can make the difference between a good day and a great day.

Crestliner2008 you missed what I was saying. I think Koppers curently have the nicest most realistic finishes on the market they are beautiful. BUT............ what I said was, that finish alone does not make a bait highly realistic. The canvas is still a crankbait whish is very unrealistic in itself. Now if they were to put those finishes on a more realistic body style that matches the size and shape(including fins) and action of the bait fish that are painted like then that would be different. My whole point is, that IMO most guys are doing a very poor job of actualy matching the prey species when they think they are doing a great job of matching it. Then because they are not experiancing greater results they assume that "matching the hatch is over rated". Now to Sam. Ok first lets step back. there realy arent artafical baits that are perfectly realistic. Why? because they arent real. Soo lets say ther are higher and lower degrees of realism in lures. Some such as certain swimbaits,flies, frogs, plastic craws I would consider prety realistic. For Craws I would not consider the Mad man highly realistic like I would the Huddle Bug. Also realistic and natural are 2 differnt things. A plastic worm, creature, Senko, etc has a very natural apperance. No they are not realistic because they dont match the regular food but there is very little negative cues to alertr the bass that its not food. They dont look like any specific species but they look like they look very natural with subtle movements. Second there is a difference in working a bait slowly where a fish can and does inspect the bait, and working it fast wher a bass reacts. When a bass gets a good look at a bait the overall realism can help alot especialy if your matching what they are feeding on at that time. The faster moving bait relys on creating the illusion of realism through movement or action, and or it just provokes a reation strike. Non realistic baits can look realistic in certain circumstances. Just like working a white fluke through a shcool of busting bass. The fluke does not look real at all but when you start twitching it and working it, it starts to look a lot like the fleeing shad and so, even thogh the bait by itself is not "matching the hatch", when you work it right it does. Also YES I have seen bass primarily feeding an small frogs at specific times and yes the frog bait slayed them. I have also seen bass feeding heavily on blue draggon flies. So I went home and made a floating soft draggon fly and I slyed them. Also yes you are correct there are many swimbaits that arent very realistic. My whole point is that if you do a very good job of matching the prey that they are feeding on, when they are feeding you should out fish a non realistic bait. All the succesfull trophy hunter that I know, Match the Hatch(prey) as best they can and and they have great results because of it.

Wrong SenkoSam. The guys that are hunting the biggest bass are fishing the most realistic swimbaits they can find. The reason the worm or jig works well slow when a fish CAN AND DOES inspect the bait, is that they dont see anything worng with it. Those baits are very natural looking. So its not the action of the bait. Its not a reaction bite. The apearance of the bait and movement fool the bass into thinking its food. But mostly its the appearnace. When it comes to realisim in lures there is a line. if a bait such as a crank has a superrealistic finish its still not realistic. It doesnt swim like a fish, It isnt shaped like the fish. It has a bill and hanging trebles, No fins or tail. But fish will stil eat it. My whole whole point which you missed, is that if you are actualy matching the hatch you should have the best fishing day possible. If bass are busting shad and you throw a live shad then you will get bit. If bass are feeding on freashly stocked trout and your throwing a Hudd, then you should get bit. If they are feeding on frogs and you match the size,color,action, and shap of that frog then you will get bit. Most guys think they are matching the hatch when they arent realy even close. Or even worse, they aregue that matching the hatch doesnt work or its over rated because they caught fish on a chartruse buzzbait and it doesnt llok like anything. Thats like arguing that 2+2 does not equal 4 beacue 2+1 does equal 3. It makes no sence and just because a non natural lure works, that doeas absolutley nothing to show that a realistic one woundt have worked better.

Crestliner2008 I dont consider Koppers realistic. WHAT? BUT THEY LOOK SOO REAL???? No they dont. They look like lures. They look like crankbaits. They do not look like fish. If sombody walked by you and watched as you were fishing one. NOBODY would think you were using live bait. Koppers has absolutley beautiful ultra realisic finishes but thats only a small part of it. Overall they dont look like a real fish. They arent shaped like real fish and they doont swim like real fish. So while some guys think they are matching the forage because there crankbait is painted the same colr, I dont they are matching the hatch very well. Now under certain circumstancs like low light or dirty water or a fast eratic retreive those type of baits can creat the illusion of realism. But how many guys throw cranks super slow in clear water and still wack the bass. I think matching the hatch is possibly the most underrated aspect of bass fishing. Mainly because guys think their baits are matching the forage when in reality their baits look nothing like what the bass are feeding on. Yeah they still catch fish but they could be missing out on much better fishing if they actualy were matching the hatch

I agree with RW. While just about anything will work, that does not mean that its the best choice. I believe that the biggest, oldest,smartest bass make fewer mistakes then the dumb little ones. I match the "hatch" wich is actualy the size and species of the prey that the big bass are eating. This is almost always another fish. You dont NEED to match the hatch to catch but why why not use every advantage you can? especialy if your targeting the big ones.