Advice on light line rod, and on fishing line.

[BigEbass]

Ok, so I got a bit of money 400-500 bucks that I am going to blow on some stuff.  I am going to buy a curado 300E for my big topwaters, but I plan on trying to learn some new "light line" techniques for this winter and early spring....

I had a couple months ago bought a nice schimano reel and rod 6 footer medium light (totaled about 180 bucks) - without going into detail - it is gon  >  >  >

I think though I want a better light line rod - a longer rod that can cast a float n fly type of setup nicely, but also be a good quality rod and fight the big fish nicely.

I have started to try to spoon for bass (have only tried it once really so far just to see how it looks on my electronics - caught a catfish ) - I think my current rods I have will suffice for this tactic. However I am thinking about making a change to braid for these applications in large...??

I figure that braid with a floro leader will be better for verticle jigging a spoon etc, for float n fly Im not sure it will matter as there will be a strike indicator...but for spoons and ice jig I imagine that fire line or braid will be better.

Ive never used braid before so I am looking for advise and any tips on what # test I should use? knots?  leader? is mono a better leader to give a bit of shock absorption for example?  color of braid? brand? casting with braid with either baitcaster or spinning reel, dos and donts? with such low stretch I suppose I will need to pay much more attention to proper drag setting to avoid breaking off on a hookset - any advice there?

totally new to braid, so if you all know of good links to articles that would be great.

Advice specific to my techniques of interest (including drop shot, wacky, or shaky head fishing with proper line selection).

Best rod for float n fly - possibly this rod would be good for shaky head and drop shot and other light line applications??

and and a good reel for this setup.

Any help or direction appreciated.

[BigEbass]

Also, any strong feelings on a good rod for big topwaters such as lunker punker to pair up with the curado 300 - or a different reel alltogether - just I have seen this reel recommended alot for this application....

I have a skeeter reese flipping stick that I figure can be used in the interim for this application....but probably there is a better rod for this purpose...

[deep]

Re: braid

Two words, Daiwa Samurai.

I use 6 lb diameter (30 lb test) on a medium power rod, and 4 lb diameter on my ultralight set-up.

Re: leader

I use a leader, but some folks don't. There were a couple of recent threads about the pros and cons.

**Ive never used braid before so I am looking for advise and any tips on what # test I should use?**

I have only 2 reels rigged with braid. 2 lb dia braid is probably better for my ultralight set-up, but the 2lb dia Samurai gave me too many windknots.

**knots? leader?**

I use a FC leader. I used to use 6 lb test FC for the leader, but a recent fish (which I did land btw) cured me. I now use 10 lb test leader.

Alberto or uni-to-uni for the braid to leader connection.

**is mono a better leader to give a bit of shock absorption for example?**

I use fluoro. I don't think it really matters as far as the shock absorption topic is considered. You only got 6 or 7 ft of leader anyway.

**color of braid? brand?**

Green Daiwa Samurai. Hi-viz colors also have a fan following.

**casting with braid with either baitcaster or spinning reel, dos and donts?**

On a backlash, the lure might fly off; thanks to the very low stretch of braid.

**with such low stretch I suppose I will need to pay much more attention to proper drag setting to avoid breaking off on a hookset - any advice there?**

I tighten my drag down as far as it'd go. But I do a sweep set, instead of a snap set. Always. No exceptions.

(One more reason to have a leader. Without a leader, and on a hard hookset, the rod will probably break before the braid breaks.)

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Here's all the ins & outs of the float & fly rig: http://www.floatandfly.com/

More info than I can put in a post. If you don't find exactly what you want in a manufaturer rod, let me know if you want to consider a custom.

Mike

[BigEbass]

nice article!  I had saw triton mike's you tube video description of the float n fly rig and the bobber modification - ive already made three of these bobbers to detect the "lift bite" - very cool - hadnt thought of that...

not so sure though why the three way swivel is really necessary - I read his rationale regarding easier retying in the case of breaking off - but that assumes you break off alot    - is that a common occurence with float n fly - I suppose if it is, then I would favor the 3 way swivel - but I would think it would tangle more in casting and make it a bit more annoying to change target depth....either way, Im sure it isnt a huge difference...

Ive read on a few sites mixed things about selection of rods - I have found a few rods that appear to be quality based on folks comments that are cheaper...wondering if 180 + dollars is just too much for this rod for the job it does...?? Whats the real diff between say a 50 dollar B&M  or BPS 10 footer and 180 dollar all star as far as utility? or even 300 dollar G lumis 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

Whats the real diff between say a 50 dollar B&M or BPS 10 footer and 180 dollar all star as far as utility? or even 300 dollar G lumis

I have a $50 BPS Wally Marshall Pro Series 9' rod.

I have a $180 St Croix AVID 8' Medium-Light Moderate rod.

Speaking strictly "utility" as you mention - SENSITIVITY. The AVID has much more feeback of what the lure ,worm is going over through and such. The feel of light bite/nibbles is telegraphed more so with the AVID.

BACKBONE- would go to the BPS WM it is more stout a foot or so passed the grip, heaving bass over brush or pulling bass out of water I feel better with the WM where I would rather lip bass with the AVID.

TIP-SECTION In my experience the AVID tip section is stronger than my WM. I ride my bike to get around a lake and a couple times, while Im peddling alond, the tip of the AVID has made contact with the path and bent knocking pole out of my hand once surprizingly not breaking. My WM tip broke when loading it into my vehicle the tip hit the rear head-rest support and snapped the 1st 4" off.

Now for light weight/ balance it goes to the AVID. Having fished both at the same time the AVID just "feels" better more comfortable giving like an AHH moment when using the AVID directly after the WM.

Ive used a Stradic FI 1000 on both these with PowerPro 10/2 the guides are fine no issues in this area.

Here some pics of fish caught with my AVID rod

[BigEbass]

do you fish float 'n' fly on the rods you mention? 

Sensitivity may not be a concern being that you are using a bobber to indicate the strikes?

Backbone - my reading so far has indicated that 2-6 lb test is used for these rigs for best results - backbone would seem to be less of a concern in this regard - rather I would think that the longer the rod and evenly applying the load on the rod would be key? - I would not want to horse out any medium-big fish with 4 lb test on a long rod I would think...?

That leaves the issue of weight and feel - likely I am sure the more expensive one is better in this regard...but is that enough for me to drop the dough for this application 

keep in mind these are all questions, not assertions!

[BigEbass]

Plus would casting a 12-18 foot leader with an 8-9 foot rod be just really difficult? would have to go with the slip bobber if I used an 8 footer I think, and apparently there are many that feel that the slip bobber is NOT the way to fish the float n fly...although debatable I suppose...i have no idea....

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

I think though I want a better light line rod - a longer rod that can cast a float n fly type of setup nicely, but also be a good quality rod and fight the big fish nicely.

My backbone comparison was based on this comment. I dont know what a "big" fish is to you. To me and what Ive ever caught a 18-20" LMB is big like the picture of my bass to the left

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To others it could be just avg. 

The specific Float & Fly technique the closest Ive came is bobber and waxworm. I may have read into your comment wrong. I was thinking you wanted a multi-purpose rod with Float& Fly attributes but able to use for other tactics which from articles Ive read theses two rods have.

Like here http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/fishing/2007/09/float-fly-bass

   

A rod 8' or longer with soft action, but in the other article posted it say not a noodle rod though.

I have to pick-up my son will answer more later if you like.

[BigEbass]

Honestly, I think with my original post, I was hoping I could use something like an 8 footer as a multipurpose rod, perhaps for shakey head, for little crank baits, etc....as well as float n fly - but as I read more about f/f - it seems that the 8 footer will limit your castability especially if using 10+ foot leader.....in other articles (floatnfly.com and others), there is mention of the importance of the longer rods for playing the "big" fish better - "big" to me, I dont know, but for 4 lb test, I would call a 2 + lb spot, or a 3.5 lb largemouth "big" -

Im sure the 8 foot rod will work though, just perhaps it will be relegated to slip bobber f/f rig or shorter leaders with a swivel rig......and casting distance may suffer a bit......hmmm...I think what I may consider is a modestly priced 10 footer for f/f, but invest in a nice medium light 8 footer (like the schimano) - I had a really nice schimano rod - 6 footer medium light - 110 bucks, plus a sahara reel - lost it the very next day after purchase - that was a really nice rod/reel - I was soo ticked > > >

Definately will invest in a high quality sensitive and strong rod for other finess techniques aforementioned (similar to the one I lost already).....for the reasons you meantioned earlier!

[new2BC4bass]

"big" to me, I dont know, but for 4 lb test, I would call a 2 + lb spot, or a 3.5 lb largemouth "big"

I think you will redefine 'big fish' once you have fished a longer rod for awhile. I have an old Fenwick 9' glass rod that I used years ago to land a 10 pound carp on 4 pound test line with the drag locked down. However I've also landed a 35 pound one on 8 lb. test using a much shorter rod. I think it is more a matter of knowing how much pressure you can put on without breaking the line.

[BigEbass]

yeah, well the bass that I am going for as always with any of my fishing is to beat my PB constantly - this year I have became obsessed with this concept

PB LM 7 lber, PB spot 3.5 lber - both caught this year - I hear that the float n fly will surprisingly hook up with some big fish....we will see, I just love trying new techniques

[Hammer 4]

You asked about a rod for your topwater baits, i.e. lunker punker. I only have the 9" wood punkers, and I use a Dobyns 806 Mag for baits in that weight range, I also use a Curado 301E with 20 lb. YoZuri ultrasoft line. IMHO, braid isn't the greatest for punkers, at least to walk the dog with them, a line with a bit of stretch works a tad better for me.

If your gonna use the 6" punkers, then a a good flippin /jig rod would work.

[BigEbass]

awesome hammer - I actually have a flippin stick - skeep reese rod - that would likely do the job very nicely for the punker - I know have heard the braid vs. mono for lunker punker go both ways - guess its a small detail either way - some have said that working the punker with the stretch of mono all day is a bit more tiring, but the stretch probably allows you to get the bait back and forth walking motion a bit better - I have been using mono without a major problem except on my calcutta 400 TE, i have to just reel too much and its a bit tiring, but even with that doable.

How have you done with the 9 incher - do you target largemouth with it?

[Hammer 4]

Fishing any topwater around here is kinda tough. With all the pressure, and shallow water, ect.

Only had the punker for less than a year, and had it custom painted in a bluegill pattern. And yep, I target bass, but the big ole stripers seem to like it to..lol Anyway, I've only caught 1 bass, and had a few blow ups on the bait. I will continue to throw it and hopefully get one of the big girls landed. Good luck with yours.

[new2BC4bass]

yeah, well the bass that I am going for as always with any of my fishing is to beat my PB constantly - this year I have became obsessed with this concept

PB LM 7 lber, PB spot 3.5 lber - both caught this year - I hear that the float n fly will surprisingly hook up with some big fish....we will see, I just love trying new techniques

After re-reading my post today, I realized that I hadn't gotten across what I meant to say. In fact it doesn't even come close to what I meant. What it sounded like was bragging. All I was really trying to say is that 4 lb. test line can handle a lot bigger fish than you may realize. A long rod with plenty of flex will make it even easier, but it can also be done on much shorter rods. Of course, a shorter rod is not what you need for the new technique you want to try.

BTW, your PB LM is a lot bigger than mine. Congratulations! ;D

[BigEbass]

hey thanks man!  I didnt percieve it as bragging, its all good!!  Yeah, I saw on jarret edwards outdoors just last week a 6 lber ish landed on like 4 lb test.....and I think they were using a 7 or 8 footer....

Here is where I am at and cannot fully decide what to do....

1) if I choose to fish a fixed bobber rig and not a slip bobber rig - in which case I may want to tie on a leader 10 plus feet at times - in that case, the long rod is pretty necessary perhaps for easier casting. This rod would be farily specific for float n fly and I think I would go on the cheap for this rod - B n M for 50 bucks I saw today in academy I think would do the trick....

2) alternatively, if I fish it with a slip bobber I could buy a 7-8 footer, but buy a better quality rod and this rod could be used for multiple light line purposes...f/f and other finess light line stuff....

The site suggested on here www.floatnfly.com makes a hard stance AGAINST using a slip bobber, but I still am unclear about why its so wrong to use....and I have talked to folks on other sites including the bbz.com and a couple others that DO use the slip bobber AND fixed - and they both catch....have actually picked up a few other really good ideas for f/f  : -

I think I will simply end up buying the 10 footer B n M for purposes of float n fly fishing....but I will still need to buy me a 7-8 footer for light lining other stuff....

At least this is how I understand my decision process at this point - overanalyzed you say 

[BigEbass]

also, just found this link - kinda mad that mike didnt email me this link in the first place as I have been chatting with him about this techique via email - kidding mike - thanks man!! 

Here he confirms the importance of not using the slip bobber...I think I am gonna go with a more moderately priced long rod cause it appears for this appliciation it will be very good.....

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

in the article I posted it says same in point #2--

"Float 'n' fly fanatics insist on a stationary float as opposed to a slip bobber."

[BigEbass]

in the article I posted it says same in point #2--

"Float 'n' fly fanatics insist on a stationary float as opposed to a slip bobber."

Exactly, im sorry, I had read it in that article as well....I have spoke with an apparently well known tackle shop in georgia known for float n fly and other ultra finess stuff - the owner informed me the same premise..."NO slip bobber".....I have not actually tried this yet, but I have been told that the slip bobber paired with a 1/16 oz jig makes it difficult for the jig to fall and that you dont get the same precise depth control......

However, some of the guys out west and other folks do not have an aversion to using slip bobber rig, stating it does essentially the same thing.....

Dont really kno who is "right" - but I figure one of those 10 foot steelhead type rods will do a good job handing a big fish on this light line....this point was confirmed by the tackle shop (natures tackle box) - they related that they have seen 25 lb stripers, big catfish, and big spots and large mouths landed on these long rods and they feel strongly that they do a better job playing the fish, casting, and keeping the fish hooked (constant pressur from the rod).

Alternatively, I could use a 7-8 foot rod and slip bobber rig that could be used for other purposes besides F/F....

I was told by natures tackle box (chrisie is the owner, very helpful) that most low cost rods for this application will all do the same thing - so dont break the bank - they sell a silstar 10 footer for 40 bucks that they all use (including Mike Bucca - aka "triton mike" and the owner herself).....

Cant wait to get out and try this on some spots suspended in a couple weeks....they say that the worse the winter weather, the better the f/f bite.