A Job You Love vs. A Job That Pays Well

[slonezp]

2 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Can’t say as I blame you. I’ve split time between office and field and prefer field, I’m glad my body didn’t take that wear and tear.

I mean no disrespect, slo, I’m not trying to convey that. I see so many guys that are so broken down and look waaaay older than they should be that I don’t want my son going that route. 
I’m 55 with bad knees and degenerative discs, not too mention an impaired eye. He sees me struggling sometimes with every day activities because of those issues. I’m in no way like these guys I speak of. They really have no life after they retire. Their bodies are flat out worn out.
He likes scuba diving and often talks about doing search and rescue. We’ll see where that takes him.

Glad to hear your boy is doing well.

As you know I'm still in the industry only in a different capacity. My customers are mostly pipefitters around my age. A lot can't wait for retirement and I'm surprised others haven't retired already. Most will retire at 60 as long as they have enough "points" in the union to do so. Many will spend their last year or 2 of employment getting knees and shoulders replaced while they still have the insurance coverage. The average fitter only lives 5-7 years after they retire. 

[Smallies]

My two cents...

 

Schooling is completely and utterly overrated.  

 

Notice, I didn't say education is overrated, just schooling.

 

Before I go on, I graduated from Pepperdine with a B.S. in computer science — Perfect name for the degree, IMO.

 

you don't need to go to college, UNLESS :  You want to be a lawyer or a doctor.  Otherwise, forget about it.  It costs WAY too much money, and you'll be paying off those loans forever.  Instead, educate yourself in the field that interests you the most — the thing you LOVE doing.  The thing you're really really good at.  The thing that, when you do it, time seems to fly and you can't even believe that eight hours went by, and you can't wait to wake up and do it again the next morning.  THAT thing.  Then, figure out how to make money doing it. 

 

Spend the four years you would've spent at college and the 50-150K you would've spent starting a business doing THAT thing.  Thank me later. 

 

Since college I've done the following :

• Worked at Oracle in the marketing department - office job, hated it.
• Thought I wanted to be a firefighter, so for 5 years I tried to get hired full time - was an EMT on a 911 rig for a major fire department, volunteer firefighter, etc. and realized it was too much like the military and I don't like authority, so I quit.
• Thought I wanted to be an actor, so for another 5 years or so I pursued an acting career.  Had some roles, did kinda well, but soon realized I wanted to have a family and it was gonna take another 5 years or so to be successful enough to actually make any good money (based on my friends' experience).  So I quit.  
• Worked for a tech company for a little while, it was a startup.  Used my comp. sci. background to get in and then sold my shares when we got bought out.  Cashed in, which was nice, but the job itself sucked (IMO). — Mind you, I didn't use any knowledge I gained from my college time to get this gig — everything I learned about coding and computers I taught myself starting at about age 13.  You could say the degree helped me get this opportunity, but really it was right place right time - I knew the founder personally. 
• I worked in hospitality all through college and through my other jobs, so I thought I would open a restaurant.  Boy did THAT suck!  Everyone told me not to open a restaurant, but I didn't listen.  4 most stressful years of my life, but I learned a lot.  I learned a LOT about what I DIDN'T want to do with my 80+ hours a week. I had a son during this time, and that's what made me sell the place.  Made a little bit of money and sold 1 year before COVID.  What a miracle!
• Since then, and actually during the time I had the restaurant, I've been trading (day trading stocks) for a living and LOVING it.  Found out, I didn't want to be a computer guy, a firefighter, an actor, or a restauranteur — I wanted to be a Dad!  And now I work from home, and love what I do every day, and get to be with my wife and kids.  It's amazing!  

TLDR:

Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life.  Why spend 40-80 hours a week making someone else wealthy and happy, since THEY get to spend time doing the things THEY want to do, and spending time with the people close to THEM while YOU are working your tail off?  Where there's a will there's a way — don't take the "easy" way out (which is really the long, hard, day in and day out, clock in and clock out way) and just get a J-O-B.  Find out what you love, what you're good at, and how you want to spend your life.  No one ever said on their death bed, "Man I wish I would've worked more."  It's always, "Man I wish I would've spent more of my time doing ______"

 

Also, since you're young, find a way to put $300 - $500 a month into the stock market.  Pick 5 companies you believe in, and that will be around forever (Think Apple, Tesla, Nike, Starbux etc.) and buy their stock each month, no matter what the current price is.  In 30 years, you'll have millions.  (maybe instead of one of the stocks, invest in BTC or ETH).  Jim Cramer's first book, "Mad Money" is a great place to start.  He will show you in that book how to pick 5 companies that are diversified, and how to do your "homework" on them every quarter, listening to their earnings calls and reading their balance sheets / cash flows etc. in order to either stay invested each month, or to move to a different company.  Let your money work for you, and one day, you'll never have to work another day in your life, unless you WANT to. 

 

Hope you find this helpful, and best of everything to you.  Oh, and tight lines!

 

 

[Captain Phil]

5 hours ago, Smallies said:

My two cents...

 

Schooling is completely and utterly overrated.  

 

Notice, I didn't say education is overrated, just schooling.

 

Before I go on, I graduated from Pepperdine with a B.S. in computer science — Perfect name for the degree, IMO.

 

you don't need to go to college, UNLESS :  You want to be a lawyer or a doctor.  Otherwise, forget about it.  It costs WAY too much money, and you'll be paying off those loans forever.  Instead, educate yourself in the field that interests you the most — the thing you LOVE doing.  The thing you're really really good at.  The thing that, when you do it, time seems to fly and you can't even believe that eight hours went by, and you can't wait to wake up and do it again the next morning.  THAT thing.  Then, figure out how to make money doing it. 

 

Spend the four years you would've spent at college and the 50-150K you would've spent starting a business doing THAT thing.  Thank me later. 

 

Since college I've done the following :

• Worked at Oracle in the marketing department - office job, hated it.
• Thought I wanted to be a firefighter, so for 5 years I tried to get hired full time - was an EMT on a 911 rig for a major fire department, volunteer firefighter, etc. and realized it was too much like the military and I don't like authority, so I quit.
• Thought I wanted to be an actor, so for another 5 years or so I pursued an acting career.  Had some roles, did kinda well, but soon realized I wanted to have a family and it was gonna take another 5 years or so to be successful enough to actually make any good money (based on my friends' experience).  So I quit.  
• Worked for a tech company for a little while, it was a startup.  Used my comp. sci. background to get in and then sold my shares when we got bought out.  Cashed in, which was nice, but the job itself sucked (IMO). — Mind you, I didn't use any knowledge I gained from my college time to get this gig — everything I learned about coding and computers I taught myself starting at about age 13.  You could say the degree helped me get this opportunity, but really it was right place right time - I knew the founder personally. 
• I worked in hospitality all through college and through my other jobs, so I thought I would open a restaurant.  Boy did THAT suck!  Everyone told me not to open a restaurant, but I didn't listen.  4 most stressful years of my life, but I learned a lot.  I learned a LOT about what I DIDN'T want to do with my 80+ hours a week. I had a son during this time, and that's what made me sell the place.  Made a little bit of money and sold 1 year before COVID.  What a miracle!
• Since then, and actually during the time I had the restaurant, I've been trading (day trading stocks) for a living and LOVING it.  Found out, I didn't want to be a computer guy, a firefighter, an actor, or a restauranteur — I wanted to be a Dad!  And now I work from home, and love what I do every day, and get to be with my wife and kids.  It's amazing!  

TLDR:

Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life.  Why spend 40-80 hours a week making someone else wealthy and happy, since THEY get to spend time doing the things THEY want to do, and spending time with the people close to THEM while YOU are working your tail off?  Where there's a will there's a way — don't take the "easy" way out (which is really the long, hard, day in and day out, clock in and clock out way) and just get a J-O-B.  Find out what you love, what you're good at, and how you want to spend your life.  No one ever said on their death bed, "Man I wish I would've worked more."  It's always, "Man I wish I would've spent more of my time doing ______"

 

Also, since you're young, find a way to put $300 - $500 a month into the stock market.  Pick 5 companies you believe in, and that will be around forever (Think Apple, Tesla, Nike, Starbux etc.) and buy their stock each month, no matter what the current price is.  In 30 years, you'll have millions.  (maybe instead of one of the stocks, invest in BTC or ETH).  Jim Cramer's first book, "Mad Money" is a great place to start.  He will show you in that book how to pick 5 companies that are diversified, and how to do your "homework" on them every quarter, listening to their earnings calls and reading their balance sheets / cash flows etc. in order to either stay invested each month, or to move to a different company.  Let your money work for you, and one day, you'll never have to work another day in your life, unless you WANT to. 

 

Hope you find this helpful, and best of everything to you.  Oh, and tight lines!

 

 

 

Couldn't have been stated any better.  Most people have at least 3-4 different careers.  I've been an office machine repairman, computer programmer, salesman, consultant, Realtor, author, charter boat captain and fishing guide.  Being a fishing guide was the worst job of them all.  In all but one, I was my own boss.  Nothing is worse than working for an idiot.  College wasn't for me in 1965, but things are different these days.  I firmly believe we need more trade schools and definitely more apprenticeship programs.  Back in my day, a company would train their employees.  The best companies will train you then pay you well so you will stay around.   Read these posts a few times more and you will be on the right path.  Good Luck!

[Bird]

Hard for me to give good advice as the above posts. 

I was always married to my job, working long hours and every weekend for many years. Think I just loved working regardless of what that job was. 

I would advise against letting money becoming the driving force as a hard work ethic will most often spawn success regardless. 

[Catt]

14 hours ago, slonezp said:

My boy is in his early 30's and as of June 30th of this year, with salary and bonuses, makes more money than dad. I veered him away from the trades when he was looking at colleges for no other reason than my body was shot by the time I was 40, and that was prior to me tearing my shoulder up. 

 

 

 

 

Two boys I coached in high school football took my advice & got into construction. Both are in their late 30s & both started their own company. Both are knocking down a million plus a year!

 

Another kid went to electrical school, is now a master electrician, works 2 weeks offshore, works his own business the other 2 weeks. His salary is in the high 6 figures. 

 

You can work for the man or you can be the man.

14 hours ago, slonezp said:

My boy is in his early 30's and as of June 30th of this year, with salary and bonuses, makes more money than dad. I veered him away from the trades when he was looking at colleges for no other reason than my body was shot by the time I was 40, and that was prior to me tearing my shoulder up. 

 

 

 

 

Two boys I coached in high school football took my advice & got into construction. Both are in their late 30s & both started their own company. Both are knocking down a million plus a year!

 

Another kid went to electrical school, is now a master electrician, works 2 weeks offshore, works his own business the other 2 weeks. His salary is in the high 6 figures. 

 

You can work for the man or you can be the man.

[flyfisher]

15 hours ago, slonezp said:

My boy is in his early 30's and as of June 30th of this year, with salary and bonuses, makes more money than dad. I veered him away from the trades when he was looking at colleges for no other reason than my body was shot by the time I was 40, and that was prior to me tearing my shoulder up. 

 

 

 

My dad was an electrician and eventually opened his own business.  I always said I wanted to work with him.  Growing up I went on jobs with him occasionally but he wouldn't let me work for him in the summers so I did construction, landscaping etc...instead.  I said I still wanted to work with him and he said nah be an electrical engineer instead if you want to be involved with electricity.  You don't need to be crawling in attics and under buildings, I did that so you don't have to.

And then I go and become a teacher so go figure....lol 

[slonezp]

16 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

 

Two boys I coached in high school football took my advice & got into construction. Both are in their late 30s & both started their own company. Both are knocking down a million plus a year!

 

Another kid went to electrical school, is now a master electrician, works 2 weeks offshore, works his own business the other 2 weeks. His salary is in the high 6 figures. 

 

You can work for the man or you can be the man.

Very true. The year I got hurt I had already started to get things lined up to go on my own. Life happens when you make other plans.

My daughters boyfriend is a GC and does quite well for himself.

 

I think our personalities have a lot to do with how successful or unsuccessful and how happy or unhappy we can be in our careers and some personalities are more prone to doing one thing rather than another.  Personally, I'm not a fan of people or authority. I can't begin to tell you how unhappy I was, after my work injury, with my work situation. I spent 25 years working alone. First job I had post injury I was a project manager for a nationwide 3rd party facilities maintenance co and I ran the largest account they had which consisted of roughly 9,000 retail locations. Office had 350-450 people, most being customer service. Worked there 3 or 4 years and I hated most of it. The company was run like our government as I believe much of corporate America is. Needless to say, I bumped heads with other department managers on a regular basis. No one wants to take blame for screw ups and I was the guy who had to patch things up. Left there and went to work doing hvac tech support for a worldwide company. I couldn't deal with the micro management. Fast forward to today, I'm back to working by myself again. I run a hvac/r supply house. I make a good buck, I'm dealing with my people aka pipefitters and other tradesman. If I speak with the bosses more than a few times a year, that would be a lot. As long as I make money, they leave me be. I have girls in the corporate office at my disposal but I tend to do most of the work myself. It's my personality. I don't have much faith in people.

 

My son followed in my fathers and sisters footsteps and became an accountant. He will be taking over the firm he works for, in the next few years, when the owner retires and will be pulling down mid to high 6 figures. I already told him he better remember who brought him into this world. 

[TOXIC]

Let’s not forget a job is what you make it.  You can either be miserable or you can find the good.  Was a career in the government closing banks around the country my “dream job” hell no….but I found that making sure peoples hard earned money was safe, provided me with some assurance I was providing for the greater good.  I had absolutely fantastic benefits, was able to rise to the SES level of government, was able to save and invest a lot of my income with a 10% match from my agency, got to see all corners of these United States and Puerto Rico, met some amazing people, and retired very comfortably after 34 years.  Were there downsides? Of course but that is life and if you can’t deal with the downsides, there won’t be many upsides.  If I had been like many of the young people I see nowadays and lived in a van blogging about my travel experiences and living “the perfect life”, I don’t think I would be where I am today.  And I am in a very nice place by my standards.  I worry about all of the younger generations chasing the perfect job.  

[12poundbass]

2 hours ago, slonezp said:

I already told him he better remember who brought him into this world

His mother. 

[slonezp]

4 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

His mother. 

Won't post details in an open forum but she's not in his life. 

[12poundbass]

39 minutes ago, slonezp said:

Won't post details in an open forum but she's not in his life. 

Ahh, well that attempt at a wise crack backfired. My apologies. 

[slonezp]

13 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Ahh, well that attempt at a wise crack backfired. My apologies. 

It didn't fail, I just pulled the trump card for the win.

[12poundbass]

4 minutes ago, slonezp said:

It didn't fail, I just pulled the trump card for the win.

Yes you did. 
 

And you know there’s a nor’easter who’ll chime in soon. 

[slonezp]

1 minute ago, 12poundbass said:

Yes you did. 
 

And you know there’s a nor’easter who’ll chime in soon. 

He hasn't been chiming much. Doesn't even text me anymore. 

[12poundbass]

22 minutes ago, slonezp said:

He hasn't been chiming much. Doesn't even text me anymore. 

He busted my balls Friday so he’s still lurking around here. 

[NYWayfarer]

On 12/4/2021 at 9:48 AM, Catt said:

 

 

I told my kids, grandkids, & students I coached there are 3 options available.

 

College, military, & trade schools 

I am option 4 which would read “None of the above”

 

I dropped out of college in year 2

 

Military service would have killed my Mom. She lost her brother in Vietnam and my father was a different person when he came home from the Army.

 

I suffer from clumsiness. If I went to trade school I would be voted most likely to die by accident.

 

I didn’t do to bad for myself. Any job I had I was able to rise to higher positions. First job was in a warehouse loading, unloading trucks. In a few short months I was working in the front office. Second job was in a bank. In a few short years I was managing the vault. In my current job I was made a manager in a year. All without college. 
 

My secret is common sense and wisdom. Two things that are hard to come by in our current times. I would look at where I was, see what works and leave that be and work at finding common sense solutions to issues I came across. Being able to make a decision helps. I can’t tell you how many people I have come across in my day that are afraid to. 
 

I witnessed the COO of our organization let a team member be insubordination to her in front of the whole office. When she asked me what I would have done I told her I would have sent the individual home on the spot. As she was walking out I would have told her she would be getting a call from me to discuss her employment with the organization.

[Catt]

5 minutes ago, NYWayfarer said:

My secret is common sense and wisdom.

 

It's called having a work ethic ?

 

Something lacking in today's workforce!

[DitchPanda]

41 minutes ago, NYWayfarer said:

I am option 4 which would read “None of the above”

 

I dropped out of college in year 2

 

Military service would have killed my Mom. She lost her brother in Vietnam and my father was a different person when he came home from the Army.

 

I suffer from clumsiness. If I went to trade school I would be voted most likely to die by accident.

 

I didn’t do to bad for myself. Any job I had I was able to rise to higher positions. First job was in a warehouse loading, unloading trucks. In a few short months I was working in the front office. Second job was in a bank. In a few short years I was managing the vault. In my current job I was made a manager in a year. All without college. 
 

My secret is common sense and wisdom. Two things that are hard to come by in our current times. I would look at where I was, see what works and leave that be and work at finding common sense solutions to issues I came across. Being able to make a decision helps. I can’t tell you how many people I have come across in my day that are afraid to. 
 

I witnessed the COO of our organization let a team member be insubordination to her in front of the whole office. When she asked me what I would have done I told her I would have sent the individual home on the spot. As she was walking out I would have told her she would be getting a call from me to discuss her employment with the organization.

This is how I feel..especially in my current position. I have no college education but I'm doing ok. I started as Op 1 in October of 13- was an Op2 by 2016- Plant tech 2 in Sept. Of 19-Plant tech 3 Dec.of 2020 and as of last month I'm Lead plant tech and water chemistry manager. I would never discourage anybody from getting an education but if that's not for you then work hard, use your brain and take on challenges. Then you will be successful.

[TnRiver46]

College isn’t all bad, there are just as many success stories out there about educated folks. Personally I felt like there was a whole lot of pointlessness in the curriculum but it’s a leg up in the hiring process to have a degree. Student loans aren’t guaranteed, my college was free with a little extra folding money each semester. The wonderful part about college is all the relationships and experiences you have, I’m still close with several of my friends I met there

[Crankin4Bass]

You should ask your high school college counselor if they have a career interest survey you can take. That might point you in the right direction. Your high school counselor can also discuss your grades, extra curricular activities, SAT/ACT scores and family financial situation to see if you should apply to college and which ones would be best for you.

 

Good Luck!

[thediscochef]

Tons of great advice here. 
I'll be 30 soon, been reflecting on this a lot.
I only really found the career I like at 28. I spent a lot of the 10 years between high school and my current career path doing a lot of other types of work, and living life in the real world for a bit.
College is overrated unless you're doing STEM or some sort of specialized work where that level of education is really actually required. Don't venture outside that STEM college box unless you can come out debt-free. Trades are great but you should be mindful of the physical requirements that come with them sometimes. Know that you can drop what you're doing for a new career at any time; don't buy into the sunk cost fallacy. just because you spent a lot of time learning a skill doesn't mean that's the path for you, and it also doesn't make that time and skill a waste. just a tool in the toolbox. 
For some, work is a means to an end - for others the job is the end goal. Both are fine. Figure out what your relationship with work is, and then figure out work that supports that. Life is too short to hate it for 40+ hours a week.

[LrgmouthShad]

On 12/4/2021 at 9:48 AM, Catt said:

If you're struggling deciding the military is a great option. You're getting training in working as a team, you're taught structure (sorry not structure fishing), & you get room-n-board, & you get paid.

The military will always take care of you. It might not be everything you want, but it will be enough and you can meet some amazing people along the way. You can also experience some of the highest job satisfaction. 

 

OP, there are a couple of options to cut down on the cost of college through military service including ROTC scholarships and the service academies. Both great options if you can do either and are interested. But you gotta be interested. Anyways though, college is expensive and I agree totally with posts previously here about college education being vastly overrated. Anyhow, don’t waste it.

[Jigfishn10]

On 12/4/2021 at 9:54 PM, slonezp said:

As you know I'm still in the industry only in a different capacity. My customers are mostly pipefitters around my age. A lot can't wait for retirement and I'm surprised others haven't retired already. Most will retire at 60 as long as they have enough "points" in the union to do so. Many will spend their last year or 2 of employment getting knees and shoulders replaced while they still have the insurance coverage. The average fitter only lives 5-7 years after they retire. 

Yes, and you know that I always complimented you for doing so. Most would go the disability route and honestly I probably can now that the vision in my left eye is so impaired, but seriously, I don't want to monitor every activity I do and risk losing the disability check. 

I'm sure your body feels a lot healthier these days, I know mine does. That doesn't mean I miss being in the field. Quite the contrary. 

In 5 years my goal is to go into a second career and leave construction behind. Hopefully retire at 65. We'll see how that goes.

Good luck to you mi amigo, happy holiday's.

[slonezp]

7 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Yes, and you know that I always complimented you for doing so. Most would go the disability route and honestly I probably can now that the vision in my left eye is so impaired, but seriously, I don't want to monitor every activity I do and risk losing the disability check. 

I'm sure your body feels a lot healthier these days, I know mine does. That doesn't mean I miss being in the field. Quite the contrary. 

In 5 years my goal is to go into a second career and leave construction behind. Hopefully retire at 65. We'll see how that goes.

Good luck to you mi amigo, happy holiday's.

Commission pays better than disability 

[Columbia Craw]

I worked for 18 years in my first career and my purpose was to make a share holder wealthier and produce a profit.  
 

My second career had nothing to do with money but with people and I was able to change some lives.  I valued that purpose much more. Finding a purpose you value might also bring satisfaction and happiness.  Money?  Maybe not.