Why 20+pound line?

[WRB]

Not all hooks are equal regarding wire diameter and strength.

Hook type, metal heat treatment used, forged and wire diameter all come into play.

What is a light wire hook, no standard!

EWG design hooks are the weakest regardless of wire dia used, shape defeats gap strength. Straight shank hooks are the strongest followed by standard off set.

I haven’t ever straightened out a quality hook setting on a fish. I have deformed a few hooks removing them from a bass. Straighten out a few trying forcefully pulling out of a snag, flattened a few hook points setting into rocks.

Heavy cover I use braid and hooks designed for it.

Lets say for a baseline that a 3/0 - 4/0 hooks wire for Light is .043, Medium/standard .050, Heavy is .062, XHeavy Flipping is .078. It takes a lot more force to penetrate bass mouth hook setting larger diameter wire.

I use Gamakatsu jig hooks for example.

The 114 5/0 is .042D forged and 604 5/0 is .047D both fall into a light wire category but they are very strong hooks considering I caught lots of big bass to 19.3 lbs using them with 12 lb line.

Would I use these hooks in heavy cover...no!

 

Tom

[Johnbt]

Sometimes the fish are way back in the weeds.

 

 

 

[CrankFate]

On 10/5/2021 at 12:23 AM, QED said:

You don’t set your drag to the line weight but rather a fraction of it.  So you can use 20 lb drag with much heavier line.

20lbs of drag is great for 100lb line. For me, this is never. 

[QED]

34 minutes ago, CrankFate said:

20lbs of drag is great for 100lb line. For me, this is never. 

Ditto.  I mostly fish light and UL, so 2-4lb for spinning and 6-8lb for casting.  Except at places like Lake Amador that is full of sunken trees.  Only then 14-20lb test.

[PaulVE64]

1. Pike infested water

2. Leaders for main line braid when throwing crankbaits which tangle up more often without a stiff leader.

3. I throw into rapids often and i get alot of line abbrasion.

 

 

[Bluebasser86]

Never would have touched my biggest fish this morning if I wasn't using 20lb InvisX. She was all kinds of wrapped up in a nasty logjam, line squeaking and straining, I could hear her thumping around and my jig clacking off the wood. I'll have to look at the time of the video but I bet she was hung like that for close to minute before finally popping free.

[Catt]

@T-Billy ?

 

 

[NoShoes]

I think another thing lost here is what kind of line you use makes a difference. I’ve tested 12 lb big game against 15 lb tatsu and the tatsu broke first every time. 
 

What a lot of people use 20 lb fluoro for I’d venture to bet 12 lb big game and definitely 15 lb big game would hold up just as well. 

[A-Jay]

8 minutes ago, NoShoes said:

What a lot of people use 20 lb fluoro for I’d venture to bet 12 lb big game and definitely 15 lb big game would hold up just as well. 

You know I thought that too - 

 And before I knew better, I tried the 12 lb Big Game on some of these . . .

Let's just say it did not work for me. 

Not enough hook setting horse power.

A-Jay

[T-Billy]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

@T-Billy ?

 

 

Thanks Catt. I ordered a few packs from TW a couple days ago.

The 6th Sense OX are a good hook also. I've had zero issues with them other than the keeper is a little closer to the eye than I'd like. I snell them the way Tharp shows on YT and it's tight getting the wraps between my thumb and the keeper. The NJ has lot's of room there, but obviously R2C has some quality control issues.

Not sure these Mustads will be easier to snell, but I've been a Mustad fan for years. I'm sure they're a quality hook. Looking forward to giving them a workout next week. 

[NoShoes]

56 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

You know I thought that too - 

 And before I knew better, I tried the 12 lb Big Game on some of these . . .

Let's just say it did not work for me. 

Not enough hook setting horse power.

A-Jay

Care to elaborate? Unless the line broke on hookset, I don’t think the line would keep the hook from burying. 

[A-Jay]

2 minutes ago, NoShoes said:

Are you sure it wasn’t a mental thing?  Unless the line broke on hookset, I don’t think the line would keep the hook from burying. 

A mental thing ?

Most definitely.

It was a completely mental idea using that thread on big bass.

A-Jay

 

[NoShoes]

18 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

A mental thing ?

Most definitely.

It was a completely mental idea using that thread on big bass.

A-Jay

 

I misworded that, sorry if it offended any. 
 

I am interested in how the line didn’t have enough hooksetting power though?  Was it breaking on hookset?  Hook not burying?

[BassNJake]

On 10/5/2021 at 5:14 PM, NoShoes said:

Ive seen bass teeth abrade line that could cause a break on a future hook set, but never any that plain cut it. 

I have seen it twice, both times the same scenario.

Fish hit right at the boat and turned away.

Hook set on a tight line snatched their heads around but cut the 12 lb flouro

 

The reason you use flouro and not mono is in the clear deep open water you can control rate of fall easier because the flouro sinks. Also when casting to standing timber in 20 feet of water you can get the lure to pendulum less by not having a line that floats

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, NoShoes said:

I misworded that, sorry if it offended any. 
 

I am interested in how the line didn’t have enough hooksetting power though?  Was it breaking on hookset?  Hook not burying?

In capable of over coming crushers grip / Not burying the hook.

I was fishing a Super Fluke on a weighted EWG superline hook.

Like I said, bad Idea.

I have since fixed that problem 

#20lbtatsu

A-Jay

[T-Billy]

I've had trouble burying the hook with 20# XT in the past when using thick bodied baits and a straight shank hook, and XT is lower stretch than BG. This with a flippin stick, and I'll put my hookset up against anyone's. 12-15 only makes the issue worse.

This is a complete non issue with braid. The only issue with braid is throwing the under 2 pounders over the boat.

[NoShoes]

30 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

In capable of over coming crushers grip / Not burying the hook.

I was fishing a Super Fluke on a weighted EWG superline hook.

Like I said, bad Idea.

I have since fixed that problem 

#20lbtatsu

A-Jay

That’s crazy, but can see where super line hooks need more force. 
 

I stick with the standard Gama hooks, and embedded the point into the jaw bone with mono. But those standard hooks don’t require nearly the same force. 

[A-Jay]

4 minutes ago, NoShoes said:

That’s crazy, but can see where super line hooks need more force. 
 

I stick with the standard Gama hooks, and embedded the point into the jaw bone with mono. But those standard hooks don’t require nearly the same force. 

Agreed

But I've had 5 lb brown bass open standard Gamakatsu EWG's.

So when it comes to DD green bass, the rule of gross tonnage applies.

A-Jay

[Big Hands]

Bass have some pretty soft tissue areas, and they have other areas in their mouths that are very resistant to any hook burying past the barb. I think when hooks bend out or open up, it is often because the point has found one of those cartilage type areas and the bass gains leverage if the hook isn't buried to the bend where it's much more resistant to failure. 

 

And sometimes, I believe the bass can hold the bait firmly enough in their crushers to even let the hook find a home on a hookset only to have the bass fight a while, and then simply let go. You get the bait back and the hook is still in the plastic worm in spite of swinging hard enough to cross their eyes.

[Catt]

15# Big Game with a Mustad's older straight shank round Bend hooks. Never an issue buring the hook point past the barb with a Medium Heavy X-Fast rod out to 25' depths. 

 

Most of the guys I know who switched from mono to Fluoro moved up from 15# to 20#. 

[Mike L]

I have 4 combo’s with flouro, 12# - 20# and 3 with braid 30# - 80#. 
They each have thier purpose with matching rods, reels and hooks. 
I’ve gone through all the hook, line and knot experimenting years ago and finally settled on what to use where and how that gives me the greatest advantage to fish my strengths and how I like fish.  
 

It’s a confidence thing for me, knowing I have that part of the puzzle figured out. 
 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[king fisher]

I fish heavy line in two situations.  When I'm flipping pitching heavy cover and when I don't want to loose lures.  I fish a lake where there are many old commercial nets that snag everything.  Only way to keep from loosing lots of money is to use $40 pound braid and pull until something gives.  In open water with few snags, I use 12# and under.  

[WRB]

What sets a hook apart from weaker mfr’s is the steel used, heat treatment and zone forged in the hook bend. If you look at the photo Catt attached the hook bend is flattened ie zone forged.

Bass are not strong enough on the own swimming power to straighten hooks penetrated past the barb. I should having caught more big bass then anyone else on this site.

Trying to force the bass through cover by pulling with line strong enough to break the rod is a angler issue unable to control the bass.

Several salt water jack and tuna family of fish can easily break 20 lb line by their swimming power, not fresh water bass.

Tom

[jimmyjoe]

7 hours ago, Big Hands said:

I believe the bass can hold the bait firmly enough in their crushers to even let the hook find a home on a hookset only to have the bass fight a while, and then simply let go. You get the bait back and the hook is still in the plastic worm in spite of swinging hard enough to cross their eyes.

 

Amen, brother! Been there, done that and more than once!  I'm experimenting with a H/F rod and braided line to see whether I can get it to stop.                 jj

[Catt]

4 hours ago, Mike L said:

It’s a confidence thing for me, knowing I have that part of the puzzle figured out. 

 

Everyone has their own personal repertoire of confusion, that's the beauty of fishing.

 

It's 100% personal preference, my preference in worm rods ain't gonna be the same as @Mike L & his ain't gonna be the same as @A-Jay & his ain't gonna be the same as @WRB.