Future of fish finder technology

[Vilas15]

With the constant upgrades in fish finder and electronics technology, what's your thoughts on where things are headed long term? The tech is only improving and I'm thinking at some point it will be get too good. Imagine at some point your humminbird links with your sunglasses to allow you to see the fish as you cast to them, it turns fishing in 20' of murky water into bed fishing. You can't hunt deer at night with a drone and infrared camera, so there's got to be a stopping point right? At some point you have too big of advantage over the fish that it could become unsporting. Im thinking any future regs would have to be applied before the tech takes hold in tournament fishing. There are plenty of arguments that make decent points now, but may become irrelevant when the tech improves enough.

 

"Still have to get them to bite" and you still have to shoot deer when you shine them at night. Doesnt mean that at some point electronics won't too much of a competitive advantage over the game.

 

"Still have to know how to use it" and eventually the skill it takes to understand what youre seeing and getting the settings right will be eliminated entirely when they mke it user friendly enough.

 

"Costs too much for the average fisherman" like anything give it time and it will become affordable to the average person.

 

"Regulations will be adjusted" probably and this will be necessary but it wont change the fact that for species that people like to eat, like panfish and walleye, a poacher could take half the fish out of your local fishing spot while everyone else plays by the rules.

 

"Im better without it" maybe you are but plenty of people know how to use it. Muzzleloaders aren't better than modern guns even if somebody prefers them.

[Reel]

I regularly fish in water that is so clear, you can see bass that are more than 20 feet deep ( St-Lawrence river) .  Most days of the season ( June to October ) I can go on flats and target large smallmouth that swim in 3 to 5 feet of water.  I can see the fish in groups of 3 to 5 or 6.  I catch one or two and then the rest don't bite even if I see them.  And I use every trick in the book !  Seing fish does not mean catching fish.  Technology helps but it doesn't solve all the problems.

[Bankc]

I think we already passed the point of it not being "sporting" when they introduced live view.  It's one thing to know fish are near you, but another to see them react to your lure and follow them around.  It doesn't make fishing easy, but it certainly makes it a lot easier.

 

That being said, in most lakes, the bass in there aren't a native species.  And limits and regulations keep these atrificial populations healthy.  Many, if not most, lakes aren't even natural.  They're man made, or at least heavily altered by man.  So it's not fair to compare them to something like deer in a natural habitat.  

 

No one wants to watch a tournament where only a few dinks are caught because the fishing is rough and no one can locate them.  And no leagues want to miss out on the money electronics companies bring in.  And the more pressure the fish experience, and the more acute that pressure, the more they'll evolve to survive it.  So it's not like every new technology is purely additive.  

 

I would like to see more regulation in tournaments, especially when new tech is introduced.  I think there should be an approval process before new tech is allowed that considers advantage.  But it is what it is.  And what it is, is like steroids in sports.  You can hate it and say it's wrong, but if everyone else is doing it and you're not, you're gonna be at a significant disadvantage.  And just like steroids, it alone won't make you good.  But it can definitely make anyone better. 

[jbsoonerfan]

I don't understand why anyone cares what other people do. If it isn't "sporting" to you to use a "live" version, then by all means don't use it. But don't knock those who do. As far as tournament fishing goes, as long as the health of the fish or the possible danger to participants isn't at risk, I don't think regulations are necessary. 

[Big Hands]

Too much money in it for tournament organizations to outlaw it IMHO. It's not like an a-rig in that respect. Sponsorship money pays a lot of bills, and fish finding tech is red hot. If I was feeding my family tournament fishing, and the organization cut off a big supply of dollars, I'd probably follow the money. 

 

IMHO, this has little to do with what's right or wrong, just simple economics. If anything, I see limits being altered before banning electronics. I don't see how crappie especially can survive with bag limits at 25 per angler in many places, and not a lot of C&R that I know of.

[MN Fisher]

Didn't we just have this discussion?

 

 

[jbsoonerfan]

22 hours ago, Big Hands said:

Too much money in it for tournament organizations to outlaw it IMHO. It's not like an a-rig in that respect. Sponsorship money pays a lot of bills, and fish finding tech is red hot. If I was feeding my family tournament fishing, and the organization cut off a big supply of dollars, I'd probably follow the money. 

 

IMHO, this has little to do with what's right or wrong, just simple economics. If anything, I see limits being altered before banning electronics. I don't see how crappie especially can survive with bag limits at 25 per angler in many places, and not a lot of C&R that I know of.

Yep, the crappie population is going to take a BIG hit! I think it is 39 per angler, per day in Oklahoma. There are a few well known crappie guides in OK that use Live Scope that are more than likely making a killing right now. Going to be interesting when they wipe the lakes out.

[Way2slow]

All the fancy electronics in the world are not going to make the fish bite just anything you throw at them.

I know bunches of bass fishermen that only fish spring and fall when the fish are in the shallows.  Average cast is 25 -30 feet into water that's no more than a couple feet deep.  Other than a temp gauge, I don't think there is much in the sonar world that's going to make a difference in the number of fish caught.  That's all about knowing what to use and how to use it.  

Even in the deeper water that the high dollar electronics will show you where they are holding, it's still more about the lure choice and presentation. 

My nephew won a club tournament this past weekend using nothing but a basic LCD in his 17' Tracker and there were guys that had electronics in their boats that cost more that cost more than he paid for his whole rig.  

[Vilas15]

14 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Didn't we just have this discussion?

 

 

Oops, very similar discussion. I haven't been active on here for a few months (lakes iced over).

 

Edit: This post was intended to discuss the ethics of such improvements to technology, not just discussing what advancements would be made.

14 hours ago, Bankc said:

I think we already passed the point of it not being "sporting" when they introduced live view.  It's one thing to know fish are near you, but another to see them react to your lure and follow them around.  It doesn't make fishing easy, but it certainly makes it a lot easier.

 

That being said, in most lakes, the bass in there aren't a native species.  And limits and regulations keep these atrificial populations healthy.  Many, if not most, lakes aren't even natural.  They're man made, or at least heavily altered by man.  So it's not fair to compare them to something like deer in a natural habitat.

90% of lakes i fish are natural with native populations of bass.

 

14 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

I don't understand why anyone cares what other people do. If it isn't "sporting" to you to use a "live" version, then by all means don't use it. But don't knock those who do. As far as tournament fishing goes, as long as the health of the fish or the possible danger to participants isn't at risk, I don't think regulations are necessary. 

Because fish are a natural resource that are shared by the people. What other people do absolutely effects my experience if poachers use high tech to wipe out the crappie that I'd like to catch. Similarly, if somebody was shining deer at night and killing big bucks where I hunt Id be angry about that too.

[jbsoonerfan]

22 minutes ago, Vilas15 said:

Because fish are a natural resource that are shared by the people. What other people do absolutely effects my experience if poachers use high tech to wipe out the crappie that I'd like to catch. Similarly, if somebody was shining deer at night and killing big bucks where I hunt Id be angry about that too.

That is why the state sets limits. You are comparing an advantage to an illegal activity, two totally different arguments.

[Big Hands]

3 hours ago, Way2slow said:

All the fancy electronics in the world are not going to make the fish bite just anything you throw at them.

I know bunches of bass fishermen that only fish spring and fall when the fish are in the shallows.  Average cast is 25 -30 feet into water that's no more than a couple feet deep.  Other than a temp gauge, I don't think there is much in the sonar world that's going to make a difference in the number of fish caught.  That's all about knowing what to use and how to use it.  

Even in the deeper water that the high dollar electronics will show you where they are holding, it's still more about the lure choice and presentation. 

My nephew won a club tournament this past weekend using nothing but a basic LCD in his 17' Tracker and there were guys that had electronics in their boats that cost more that cost more than he paid for his whole rig.  

If you think technology like LiveScope isn't a huge advantage in many situations to anglers that know how to use them, I would have to disagree to say the least. Of course, having it and not knowing how to use it effectively won't help you.

 

The instant feedback and pinpoint accuracy they provide to targets that you cast to (not right under your boat) is proving deadly. You can actually see in real time how they are reacting to your bait presented up to 100' out in front of your boat (where fish used to feel relatively safe). That gives incredible feedback as to how they react to both your lure and your presentation. This means that the learning curve regarding what is working and what isn't, is cut drastically if you can use this technology to it's full potential.

 

I think the fish that survive will adapt to some degree, but I think regulatory agencies will have to react in some way if a decline in fish populations can be linked to the successful increased use of such technology. Even if it can't be linked, they may have to do something to keep fisheries viable. My guess is that the reaction will be to decrease limits and/or adjust size requirements.

[Vilas15]

3 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

That is why the state sets limits. You are comparing an advantage to an illegal activity, two totally different arguments.

That's the entire point of this post. Im asking the question: In the future will certain technology get so good that it needs to be made illegal since it gives too much of an advantage (a la shining)? At some point spotlights were invented and somebody decided they shouldn't be used for hunting, what future tech will prompt the same decision to be made in regards to fishing?

 

I have no problem with current tech but the 360 and livescope type stuff is starting to creep a bit too far for my liking.

 

Bag limits are critical too, but there are peole who will not follow them.

[jbsoonerfan]

In no way are you comparing apples to apples. A better comparison would be using rangefinders while hunting. 

 

Breaking the law is breaking the law whether it is using a spot light or keeping too many fish. People will do that regardless of the laws.

 

I don't want to argue though. Just expressing my thoughts.

[Vilas15]

2 minutes ago, jbsoonerfan said:

In no way are you comparing apples to apples. A better comparison would be using rangefinders while hunting. 

 

Breaking the law is breaking the law whether it is using a spot light or keeping too many fish. People will do that regardless of the laws.

 

I don't want to argue though. Just expressing my thoughts.

Not arguing. Some good discussion going on.

 

Breaking the law is breaking the law, but the laws need to keep up with the technology. An example is drones are becoming affordable for the average person and easy to operate, so the laws are a bit behind and working to catch up. We never needed privacy laws about spying on neighbors with drones until drones were invented.

[gim]

16 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

Yep, the crappie population is going to take a BIG hit! I think it is 39 per angler, per day in Oklahoma. There are a few well known crappie guides in OK that use Live Scope that are more than likely making a killing right now. Going to be interesting when they wipe lakes out.

 

That's already started here too.  Our daily bag limit is 10 crappies.  But ice anglers now have Panoptix to use and they can locate schools of crappies over the basin and slay them.  It takes a fraction of the time and effort that it used to.  Bluegills suffer the same consequence.  Minnesota just instituted a new daily bag limit on over 90 lakes here starting last week.  It went from a 20 fish daily bag limit on sunfish to 5.  The meat hunters have grabbed their pitch forks and they're upset.

 

Bass are generally not targeted here as food.  Plus there is a closed season.  But other fish populations here will suffer, especially panfish because there is no closed season and they are very vulnerable all year round, including during ice fishing season.  It takes years for fish to reach reasonable size here because of our winters.  I foresee much stricter laws coming.

[jbsoonerfan]

Yea, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dept. of Wildlife step in soon with new limits in place. Some crappie guides are booking morning and afternoon trips they are doing so well.

[slonezp]

3 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

Yea, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Dept. of Wildlife step in soon with new limits in place. Some crappie guides are booking morning and afternoon trips they are doing so well.

All the limits in the world mean nothing if there isn't enough manpower to enforce them

[jbsoonerfan]

5 minutes ago, slonezp said:

All the limits in the world mean nothing if there isn't enough manpower to enforce them

It will keep the honest folks honest though. 

 

Also, If the limit is 10 fish per person and a guide is letting his clients keep over the limit then the word will get out.

[Way2slow]

I guess I live in a sheltered world.  I have a hard time seeing how a live scope (or what ever name that use for it) can have a serious impact on fish population.  First, I don't see many average anglers buying a $2,500 - $5,000 sonar, even if it caught, dressed, bagged and froze the fish for them.  I don't know of a tournament angler that might use one, would abuse the resource by keeping large numbers of fish, most I've ever fished with are a whole lot more likely to put it back than in a live well.  Most people that are that serious about their fishing, and felt they had to have one, are just as serious about preserving the resources they have.   I've never met a guide that would even allow someone to catch over their limit of fish.  Matter of fact, most of the bass guides I've known tell you up front, they only practice catch and release.   If you catch a trophy, they measure, photograph it and you have a plastic one made of it.  

Now, if you want to destroy a brim or crappie population, introduce flat heads into the water system.   One grown flat head will eat more than dozens of anglers could catch a year even if they didn't pay any attention to the limits.  It's the stupid things we do to their habitat that ruins the fishing, not some piece of electronic device.

[Jigfishn10]

I bet that the guys who make a living at finding fish would welcome such electronics. Could be a guide or a guy who catches fish for a living for sale at market. 

I understand the "sporting" aspect but there's 2 side to the coin.

[gim]

8 hours ago, Way2slow said:

Now, if you want to destroy a brim or crappie population, introduce flat heads into the water system.   One grown flat head will eat more than dozens of anglers could catch a year even if they didn't pay any attention to the limits.  It's the stupid things we do to their habitat that ruins the fishing, not some piece of electronic device.

While I do agree that some predatory fish can make a sizeable dent in certain fish populations, that is not the case here.  Its not even close.  Meat hunters targeting crappies and sunfish here love to blame the muskie as the primary problem when in fact it is the anglers themselves that are responsible for it.  When they conduct muskie stomach content studies, they find very few panfish in them.  It is mostly fish such as suckers, small carp, tulibees, and pike.

 

Where you live in Georgia there is obviously no ice fishing but up here ice fishing is very popular - way more than open water fishing.  There is about 5 times as much pressure, even during a shortened season.  Traditionally, it only results in about 20% of the overall catch during the entire year because fish are cold blooded and not actively feeding, but the pressure is immense.  And new technology has greatly increased their catch and harvest rate.  Also, bear in mind ice anglers are not in it to "catch and release" unless required by law.  95% of them are after something they intend to keep.

 

Do electronics greatly affect harvest of bass?  No.  I believe that most anglers specifically targeting bass have a strong catch and release ethic and that will continue.  But in reference to other species that are mainly targeted for harvest, this is an issue and will continue to be moving forward.