Can specialists still be successful ?

[DitchPanda]

Nowadays it seems like the best anglers competing...Wheeler, Paliniuk, Jlee....are jack of all trades types. But I grew up watching guys like Brauer and Biflfle flipping jigs and T-rigs non stop and Fritts throwing crankbaits all day every day. In the current era of no secrets left because of video, internet information and crazy electronics can a guy that specializes in one thing still be competitive?

[A-Jay]

Brett Hite has close to $1.5 Extra Large in career earnings.

And you can probably guess what at least half those bass came on  . . . 

A-Jay

[gim]

I swear that KVD was throwing a jerk bait for half his career. Even in the heat of summer chasing largemouth he still used those things with success.

[A-Jay]

2 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I swear that KVD was throwing a jerk bait for half his career. Even in the heat of summer chasing largemouth he still used those things with success.

KVD was a Cranking killer there for a while as well.

Sure was fun to watch when he had the RES and a Squarebill dialed in.

A-Jay

 

[Michigander]

Are you asking about a specialist or are you asking if a non-versatile angler can be successful at the highest level? I don't think guys who can only fish one way even make it that far.

 

And you have to remember, back in the day, you were only seeing a few minutes of fishing per guy out of what could have been 8, 16,  or 24 hours of tournament fishing. Odds are they weren't just cranking or just flipping aj jig that whole time.

[BigAngus752]

I love to watch the pro stuff on TV but I don't follow all news/info about the pros as much as some people do.  That being said, I don't really feel like I can name one pro that I think of as a "jack of all trades" honestly.  Paliniuk would be close to that description.  I definitely wouldn't pick Wheeler for that.  You can watch him lose over and over to the offshore guys pulling smallies on big water.  He can do it but doesn't do well at it.  JLee is impressive because he will start off so slow you forget about him and then he figures it out and goodbye everybody.  I'd call that ability to figure it out after your plan fails as a jack of all trades I guess.  Ewin Evers is like that too.  Those are some dangerous guys all day long.

 

When I'm watching them fall in the standings I'm always asking myself, "Why is he sticking with that?  Why isn't he trying this? After 2 hours of nothing I would be throwing this".  I understand that they have their tactics laid out after practicing and based on experience on those bodies of water, intel from guides/pros in the area, etc. But, man, they can beat a dead horse for hours.  Maybe that's actually the right thing to do for reasons that I don't understand.  

 

My favorite guys to watch are Greg Hackney, Andy Montgomery, Wesley Strader and the like.  They are sitting at the bottom of the standings losing by 50 pounds and they are just doing what they like to do!  It's hilarious and I'm so happy for them!  They just go fish like they want to fish.  If it works out for them they love it and if it doesn't work out for them they sit there and talk about how well the leaders are doing and what great fishermen they are.  Always saying, "Good for him!"  They are just good sports out having a good time.  I really want to be THAT kind of fisherman.  I don't want to have ANY of Aaron Martens or Mike Iaconelli in my fishing personality.  

 

Great thread @DitchPanda.  I look forward to hearing what the more experienced guys think about your questions.  

[Hawgfinder]

It’s a little disturbing on some levels cuz guys can’t fish without all their electronics geez balls they have tv screens everywhere most fisherman can’t afford. Denny Brauer a stud Larry NIxon crazy in big tournaments those cats didn’t have all the electronics great rods and reels of this generation. KVD while annoying cuz he was kicking everyone’s a$$ just because no one understood jerkbaits or crank baits like he did. Obviously he can’t really compete in MLF format honestly if it’s not jerk baits or crank baits he’s at a loss like Ike or Ish if frog bite sucks. Theirs plenty more pros that suck too on this format too Biffle

[DitchPanda]

1 hour ago, Michigander said:

Are you asking about a specialist or are you asking if a non-versatile angler can be successful at the highest level? I don't think guys who can only fish one way even make it that far.

 

And you have to remember, back in the day, you were only seeing a few minutes of fishing per guy out of what could have been 8, 16,  or 24 hours of tournament fishing. Odds are they weren't just cranking or just flipping aj jig that whole time.

Well I just watched a video of Fritts saying when he won the classic he caught every fish on a Poes crank bait. Also heard Brauer say the same about several tournaments he won with a jig.

57 minutes ago, BigAngus752 said:

I love to watch the pro stuff on TV but I don't follow all news/info about the pros as much as some people do.  That being said, I don't really feel like I can name one pro that I think of as a "jack of all trades" honestly.  Paliniuk would be close to that description.  I definitely wouldn't pick Wheeler for that.  You can watch him lose over and over to the offshore guys pulling smallies on big water.  He can do it but doesn't do well at it.  JLee is impressive because he will start off so slow you forget about him and then he figures it out and goodbye everybody.  I'd call that ability to figure it out after your plan fails as a jack of all trades I guess.  Ewin Evers is like that too.  Those are some dangerous guys all day long.

 

When I'm watching them fall in the standings I'm always asking myself, "Why is he sticking with that?  Why isn't he trying this? After 2 hours of nothing I would be throwing this".  I understand that they have their tactics laid out after practicing and based on experience on those bodies of water, intel from guides/pros in the area, etc. But, man, they can beat a dead horse for hours.  Maybe that's actually the right thing to do for reasons that I don't understand.  

 

My favorite guys to watch are Greg Hackney, Andy Montgomery, Wesley Strader and the like.  They are sitting at the bottom of the standings losing by 50 pounds and they are just doing what they like to do!  It's hilarious and I'm so happy for them!  They just go fish like they want to fish.  If it works out for them they love it and if it doesn't work out for them they sit there and talk about how well the leaders are doing and what great fishermen they are.  Always saying, "Good for him!"  They are just good sports out having a good time.  I really want to be THAT kind of fisherman.  I don't want to have ANY of Aaron Martens or Mike Iaconelli in my fishing personality.  

 

Great thread @DitchPanda.  I look forward to hearing what the more experienced guys think about your questions.  

I think wheeler is definitely a jack of all trades. I've seen him win up shallow with a frog...offshore on a shallow flat with a spinner bait...on a ledge with deep cranks and a hair jig. He also did well at the classic that Defoe won catching smallmouth on a crank bait.

[Michigander]

2 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

Well I just watched a video of Fritts saying when he won the classic he caught every fish on a Poes crank bait. Also heard Brauer say the same about several tournaments he won with a jig.

I mean, if it there was a solid crank bite I bet he did catch them all that way. But he probably threw other presentations during practice until he figured that out. Also, that's one tournament out of a whole season. I would wager that he used other lures during that time.

 

I think all the pros have a preferred way to fish but they're really limiting themselves if they aren't versatile.

[DitchPanda]

2 minutes ago, Michigander said:

I mean, if it there was a solid crank bite I bet he did catch them all that way. But he probably threw other presentations during practice until he figured that out. Also, that's one tournament out of a whole season. I would wager that he used other lures during that time.

 

I think all the pros have a preferred way to fish but they're really limiting themselves if they aren't versatile.

Guess what I'm getting at is when you think of Fritts you think cranks..Brauer jigs.  There is a reason those guys are known for those baits...its there wheelhouse and I'd wager where a huge amount of success and tourney winnings have come from. Like what I said about Wheeler tho...when I think of his success I think of frogs...crankbaits for largies and smallies both offshore and up shallow...hair jigs on river ledges...spinner baiting dirty water. Guess I'm just thinking these guys have been more consistent by fishing the conditions instead of doing what these specialists seem to do which is lean on there strong suit regardless of what they face.

My only logic behind this thinking is ...well take Fritts for example. The dude is an exceptional crankbait fisherman..maybe the best ever. I've seen him get a top 5 cranking then the next week be in the bottom 5. All guys have bad tournaments...but these guys that are more well rounded rarely bomb like that.

I'd wager if you put Fritts on a prime cranking bite he'd smoke these guys 9 times outta 10. However if the water dirtied up or cooled off fast or insert any other bite killer they would smoke him 9 times outta 10. Some people are naturally more adaptable and seem more skilled at troubleshooting.

 

[Michigander]

1 minute ago, DitchPanda said:

Guess what I'm getting at is when you think of Fritts you think cranks..Brauer jigs.  There is a reason those guys are known for those baits...its there wheelhouse and I'd wager where a huge amount of success and tourney winnings have come from. Like what I said about Wheeler tho...when I think of his success I think of frogs...crankbaits for largies and smallies both offshore and up shallow...hair jigs on river ledges...spinner baiting dirty water. Guess I'm just thinking these guys have been more consistent by fishing the conditions instead of doing what these specialists seem to do which is lean on there strong suit regardless of what they face.

My only logic behind this thinking is ...well take Fritts for example. The dude is an exceptional crankbait fisherman..maybe the best ever. I've seen him get a top 5 cranking then the next week be in the bottom 5. All guys have bad tournaments...but these guys that are more well rounded rarely bomb like that.

I'd wager if you put Fritts on a prime cranking bite he'd smoke these guys 9 times outta 10. However if the water dirtied up or cooled off fast or insert any other bite killer they would smoke him 9 times outta 10. Some people are naturally more adaptable and seem more skilled at troubleshooting.

 

That's fair. But part of the game is getting paid, so if you can get by cashing fewer but bigger checks vs more consistent but lesser winnings, I think that's aa valid a strategy as any. Hackney (jigs), Martens (drop shot) are both known for their techniques. You have Monroe on frogs, etc. They're out there still and they get big wins when the conditions are right. Also, I think specializing probably helps you get your brand out there and be more marketable for sponsors. I don't see Hack Attack Spybaits lining the shelves, for example. LoL.

[Shimano_1]

I think wheeler holds his own anywhere they go doing anything they do. Definitely would consider him a jack of all trades. I think the specialists can and will still be successful when the conditions and such set up right for them. They just won't be as consistent.  Hard for me to question anything those guys do...theyre making a living doing it while I'm goin to work everyday.  Its definitely evolved into a much different scene that it was 10 or 20 years ago. Love seeing guys like clunn still competing and winning at his age amongst all the young guns!

[DitchPanda]

1 hour ago, Michigander said:

That's fair. But part of the game is getting paid, so if you can get by cashing fewer but bigger checks vs more consistent but lesser winnings, I think that's aa valid a strategy as any. Hackney (jigs), Martens (drop shot) are both known for their techniques. You have Monroe on frogs, etc. They're out there still and they get big wins when the conditions are right. Also, I think specializing probably helps you get your brand out there and be more marketable for sponsors. I don't see Hack Attack Spybaits lining the shelves, for example. LoL.

Oh for sure...that image helps sell product. So from the standpoint of getting sponsors and making that money maybe these specialty guys are onto something. I mean if I need a jig rod am I gonna buy one from a small mouth guy? Nope...I'm gonna buy one from Randall Tharp...he's won $2million one a jig!

[Michigander]

9 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

Oh for sure...that image helps sell product. So from the standpoint of getting sponsors and making that money maybe these specialty guys are onto something. I mean if I need a jig rod am I gonna buy one from a small mouth guy? Nope...I'm gonna buy one from Randall Tharp...he's won $2million one a jig!

There's absolutely real money in merchandizing, so I guess it doesn't really matter where your money comes from as long as it comes. Win it on the lake or win it in the store, same difference.

[DitchPanda]

2 minutes ago, Michigander said:

There's absolutely real money in merchandizing, so I guess it doesn't really matter where your money comes from as long as it comes. Win it on the lake or win it in the store, same difference.

The guys that do both are really getting after it...KVD comes to mind...not only has he won over $6 mil in tournaments he's sold about a jillion rods,reels and baits.Wheeler is following in those footsteps.

[Michigander]

13 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

The guys that do both are really getting after it...KVD comes to mind...not only has he won over $6 mil in tournaments he's sold about a jillion rods,reels and baits.Wheeler is following in those footsteps.

That's why he's the most, or at least one of the most successful pros. We won big on both sides of it. He's a machine though. I've watched extended feeds and recordings of him fishing and it's downright mechanical. Most people couldn't fish at that intensity for sustained periods like he does. Wheeler is more approachable in that regard, in my opinion.

[OCdockskipper]

4 hours ago, BigAngus752 said:

... a "jack of all trades" honestly.  Paliniuk would be close to that description.  I definitely wouldn't pick Wheeler for that. 

 

I have the reverse take on that. 

 

When Palaniuk won at Santee Cooper, he said from stage it was the first tournament that he had won where he wasn't fishing offshore.  He has admitted to struggling in shallow water places, especially Florida.  His strengths seem to be electronics, a willingness to learn and the ability to close out a tourney as good as anyone, including KVD.  He also has a wonderful trait to be "in the moment" when he is fishing, noticing little details about what is happening around him that many others miss, which is why he has had culling penalties over the years (adding a sixth fish to the livewell without culling out one).  He doesn't need to fish a clean, perfect tournament to win.  He has won multiple times despite losing weight to a culling penalty, won once when he lost half a day to go to the hospital to get a hook out of his hand.  The dude is special.

 

Now Wheeler seems to be able to catch fish in just about any situation.  He doesn't depend on any single technique or presentation to catch them, he just always figures out a way to catch them.  He is the epitome of a grinder, amazing concentration and seems calm & rational even when he is excited.  I'm not sure if he has the ability to close like Palanuik does, but few do.  Heck, anyone who can come out and win the first two Elite events they fish is also pretty special.

 

[12poundbass]

10 hours ago, Hawgfinder said:

It’s a little disturbing on some levels cuz guys can’t fish without all their electronics geez balls they have tv screens everywhere most fisherman can’t afford.

You need to check out Brian Cox then. He has two graphs on his boat and a regular cable steer trolling motor with no anchor mode, and he’s arguably the hottest angler out there right now. 

[DitchPanda]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

You need to check out Brian Cox then. He has two graphs on his boat and a regular cable steer trolling motor with no anchor mode, and he’s arguably the hottest angler out there right now. 

I think you mean John Cox

 

[12poundbass]

16 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

I think you mean John Cox

 

Yep my bad

[DitchPanda]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

Yep my bad

Ha its all good. I saw Brian Cox and all I could think was whoa Captain Ohagan from Super Troopers is the hottest pro angler?

[mheichelbech]

23 hours ago, BigAngus752 said:

I love to watch the pro stuff on TV but I don't follow all news/info about the pros as much as some people do.  That being said, I don't really feel like I can name one pro that I think of as a "jack of all trades" honestly.  Paliniuk would be close to that description.  I definitely wouldn't pick Wheeler for that.  You can watch him lose over and over to the offshore guys pulling smallies on big water.  He can do it but doesn't do well at it.  JLee is impressive because he will start off so slow you forget about him and then he figures it out and goodbye everybody.  I'd call that ability to figure it out after your plan fails as a jack of all trades I guess.  Ewin Evers is like that too.  Those are some dangerous guys all day long.

 

When I'm watching them fall in the standings I'm always asking myself, "Why is he sticking with that?  Why isn't he trying this? After 2 hours of nothing I would be throwing this".  I understand that they have their tactics laid out after practicing and based on experience on those bodies of water, intel from guides/pros in the area, etc. But, man, they can beat a dead horse for hours.  Maybe that's actually the right thing to do for reasons that I don't understand.  

 

My favorite guys to watch are Greg Hackney, Andy Montgomery, Wesley Strader and the like.  They are sitting at the bottom of the standings losing by 50 pounds and they are just doing what they like to do!  It's hilarious and I'm so happy for them!  They just go fish like they want to fish.  If it works out for them they love it and if it doesn't work out for them they sit there and talk about how well the leaders are doing and what great fishermen they are.  Always saying, "Good for him!"  They are just good sports out having a good time.  I really want to be THAT kind of fisherman.  I don't want to have ANY of Aaron Martens or Mike Iaconelli in my fishing personality.  

 

Great thread @DitchPanda.  I look forward to hearing what the more experienced guys think about your questions.  

 Curious about the Aaron Martens personality comment.  Is he an unfriendly guy?  Ike I get with all the overbearing excitement.

[DitchPanda]

5 minutes ago, mheichelbech said:

 Curious about the Aaron Martens personality comment.  Is he an unfriendly guy?  Ike I get with all the overbearing excitement.

I don think the comment is referring to there personality as in either guy is rude or unfriendly. Believe it was meant that guys like Hackney are more laid back and just kinda do there thing. Guys like Martens and Ike are much more outwardly competitive and don't seem to enjoy it as much because they take it so serious all the time. Unless they are winning of course.

[BigAngus752]

Just now, mheichelbech said:

 Curious about the Aaron Martens personality comment.  Is he an unfriendly guy?  Ike I get with all the overbearing excitement.

I know he is knowledgable, has overcome some recent hardships, and I'm sure he has plenty of fans that respect him.  It's only my opinion so I won't get into the details of my feelings about him but I don't feel that he has characteristics that I think are important when a person is in a position to influence others, including kids (so this applies to all pro sport athletes).  I am not suggesting that he is a bad person.  If I were comparing his attitudes, principles, and the comments he makes to a pro football or basketball player he would be up for sainthood!  But in comparing him to some of the fishermen I admire most I find that he comes up short...for me.  And I've never met him personally so I could be wrong as I only see him in short snippets when he is in "competition mode".  And with Ike it is not his excitement.  It's much, much more than that.  He is not any kind of example that should be followed...again, IMHO.  But I am not perfect either.  I do, however, know what it's like to be in a bright spotlight and in a position of authority or influence.  It's tough but you must portray the right example all the time, no matter what is happening or what you feel at the time.  With great power comes great responsibility.  

James Balwin said, "Children have never been very good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them".  That is my yardstick for pro athletes (and anyone "famous") and also for myself.

[mheichelbech]

2 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

I don think the comment is referring to there personality as in either guy is rude or unfriendly. Believe it was meant that guys like Hackney are more laid back and just kinda do there thing. Guys like Martens and Ike are much more outwardly competitive and don't seem to enjoy it as much because they take it so serious all the time. Unless they are winning of course.

Gotcha, I like Martens but not sure I’ve ever seen that guy look super happy.