The boundry waters in danger

[waymont]

Let's hope this doesn't come to pass. It's one of the most beautiful pristine places in the country.

 

https://www.wilderness.org/articles/press-release/trump-clears-way-toxic-mine-boundary-waters-watershed?fbclid=IwAR3lIMXWeBzMq77EWt1RpUzVOemMwtOe4Ikm1PP8FKXcHY6WiRj_UWT7TfQ

[MN Fisher]

Why am not surprised that he's for this?

[A-Jay]

eh

[waymont]

6 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

eh

Like “eh it doesn’t matter”?

[gim]

1 hour ago, waymont said:

Let's hope this doesn't come to pass. It's one of the most beautiful pristine places in the country.

It’s currently in a stage 2 moderate drought and has a fire ban too. There was also an article in the local newspaper that talked about campsites being completely trashed in there over the holiday weekend. So ya, it’s not all on the miners. Even the people who want it to stay off limits can start a forest fire or leave garbage behind.

[waymont]

23 minutes ago, gimruis said:

It’s currently in a stage 2 moderate drought and has a fire ban too. There was also an article in the local newspaper that talked about campsites being completely trashed in there over the holiday weekend. So ya, it’s not all on the miners. Even the people who want it to stay off limits can start a forest fire or leave garbage behind.

The boundary waters are delicate and for sure don't need to have a copper/nickel mine in addition to whatever else happens there. The issues are not really on the same level in regards to leaving garbage behind VS a copper/nickel mine operating inside the area.

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, waymont said:

Like “eh it doesn’t matter”?

eh like this one's got the potential to be a politically locked thread.

A-Jay

[gim]

12 hours ago, waymont said:

The boundary waters are delicate and for sure don't need to have a copper/nickel mine in addition to whatever else happens there. The issues are not really on the same level in regards to leaving garbage behind VS a copper/nickel mine operating inside the area.

What about someone starting a forest fire that burns it down?  Is that on the same level as a copper/nickel mine?  I think so...

[MN Fisher]

9 minutes ago, gimruis said:

What about someone starting a forest fire that burns it down?  Is that on the same level as a copper/nickel mine?  I think so...

Difference being that a forest fire can be recovered from - it's happened before up there. The poisons from a copper/nickel mine spread much further and last much longer: the soil become contaminated, the water downstream become polluted - it affects not only the Boundary Waters but a much larger area for a greater length of time...your grandchildren will still be dealing with it.

[gim]

Good answer

[slowworm]

Everything electrical or electronic we use today has copper in it.    So I have to ask everyone, what are you prepared to give up for lack of copper?  Your outboards?  Your trolling motor?  Your bow and console electronics?  Your phone that gives you your fishing weather forecasts?

 

If this mine is not acceptable than what mine is?  Is it acceptable that we in the clean and prosperous west live our comforts at the expense of the poor in third world countries, living and working in horribly polluted areas due to toxic mining with few if any environmental controls? 

 

Is it not the height of hypocrisy to want to keep everything we have clean and pristine as we fish the headwaters with trolling motors made from that third world copper that is bought at the cost of poisoning the soil and water somewhere else?

 

Everything has a price, and everything is a trade-off.  Copper from this mine in this country will come at a far lower human cost than elsewhere.

 

Of course, on reading the article, nothing has yet been approved,  merely the beginning of the preparation of the environmental impact statement.  The headline is nothing more than clickbait.  It'll be a decade of litigation and argument before even the smallest stone is turned. 

 

 

 

[MN Fisher]

Of course - the US has a tremendous record of mining/drilling without causing any environmental issues.

 

(SNORT)

[waymont]

1 hour ago, slowworm said:

Everything electrical or electronic we use today has copper in it.    So I have to ask everyone, what are you prepared to give up for lack of copper?  Your outboards?  Your trolling motor?  Your bow and console electronics?  Your phone that gives you your fishing weather forecasts?

 

If this mine is not acceptable than what mine is?  Is it acceptable that we in the clean and prosperous west live our comforts at the expense of the poor in third world countries, living and working in horribly polluted areas due to toxic mining with few if any environmental controls? 

 

Is it not the height of hypocrisy to want to keep everything we have clean and pristine as we fish the headwaters with trolling motors made from that third world copper that is bought at the cost of poisoning the soil and water somewhere else?

 

Everything has a price, and everything is a trade-off.  Copper from this mine in this country will come at a far lower human cost than elsewhere.

 

Of course, on reading the article, nothing has yet been approved,  merely the beginning of the preparation of the environmental impact statement.  The headline is nothing more than clickbait.  It'll be a decade of litigation and argument before even the smallest stone is turned. 

You are assuming quite a bit here. There are other places that can be mined. This location is not the end of the line. It's not hypocritical to want the boundary waters to be kept clean.

[slowworm]

3 minutes ago, waymont said:

You are assuming quite a bit here. There are other places that can be mined. This location is not the end of the line. It's not hypocritical to want the boundary waters to be kept clean.

So where are the current copper ore resources in the US that are being investigated for exploitation?  We are not self sufficient in copper production.  I did a quick search and couldn't turn anything up, but your comment implies you are much better informed than I.  Please share and inform.

 

The bottom line here is that I see trend in this nation that people who like cheap gas oppose oil pipelines, people who like reliable electricity oppose power transmission upgrades and people who like natural gas in their homes oppose new natural gas pipelines. 

 

Every single infrastructure improvement is challenged, protested, litigated and driven into the ground. In every case, someone is going to lose something they hold dear, be it a view spoiled by transmission towers, or the loss of a headwater.

 

Bottom line, everything is a trade off.  Someone will pay the price whichever way it goes.  All I ask is for people to make that choice with eyes wide open, and not believe that you can have your cake and eat it too. 

[OperationEagle]

On 7/8/2020 at 6:16 PM, slowworm said:

So where are the current copper ore resources in the US that are being investigated for exploitation?  We are not self sufficient in copper production.  I did a quick search and couldn't turn anything up, but your comment implies you are much better informed than I.  Please share and inform.

 

The bottom line here is that I see trend in this nation that people who like cheap gas oppose oil pipelines, people who like reliable electricity oppose power transmission upgrades and people who like natural gas in their homes oppose new natural gas pipelines. 

 

Every single infrastructure improvement is challenged, protested, litigated and driven into the ground. In every case, someone is going to lose something they hold dear, be it a view spoiled by transmission towers, or the loss of a headwater.

 

Bottom line, everything is a trade off.  Someone will pay the price whichever way it goes.  All I ask is for people to make that choice with eyes wide open, and not believe that you can have your cake and eat it too. 

Have my eyes open plenty wide and place me firmly in the camp of I want both. I want technology to disrupt the need for this copper so we don’t need to make such a trade off. 

 

Restricting or the poor economics of its use ...or both can be catalysts for technological breakthroughs. 

 

The economic benefit to the region is boom then bust. These situations are well studied and understood.

 

Unfortunately due to the poisonous nature of the mining, the only thing that will be long lasting is the impact on the ecosystem. 

 

Nothing was ever gained by accepting the status quo. I hope most will agree that we must expect more than “yep if you want all this technology then you have to accept all of the damaging things that come along with it” mentality.