Braid on baitcaster

[plawren53202]

After recently using braid for the first time by loading it on my spinning setup, with great results, I decided to follow suit on my baitcaster setup. By way of background, I am a bank fisherman and for both budget and logistical reasons, I only have one spinning rod and one baitcaster.  My spinning setup leans toward the light end, ML to M and 8 lb. test. The braid on the spinning setup has been wonderful, really brought any finesse-type tactics like Ned rig or wacky worm to life. So last night I loaded my Lew's Tournament MP with the same braid configuration except heavier lines: Power Pro 20 lb. braid with a Sufix Advance 12 lb. test leader.

 

Had a disaster during this morning's trip to the pond. During a cast, I ended up with a wicked bird's nest. Not sure how it happened, it occurred mid-cast while the bait was still flying through the air so not my usual bird's nest circumstances (like not thumbing it well enough when the lure lands, strong wind, or anything like that). I can pick out almost any bird's nest after long enough when using mono or fluoro, but this bird's nest with braid was futile. After several minutes I had to just give up and use only the spinning rod the rest of the morning. Thankfully they were killing a 4" Dinger either wacky or texas rigged so it wasn't a complete loss.

 

But that got me rethinking using braid on my baitcaster. Seems like it might not be as big of a risk if I was in a boat and had three other baitcasters lying on the deck. But with only one baitcaster with me at any time, another braid bird's nest could ruin a trip if they were hitting on a chatterbait or crankbait or something else too big to throw on the spinning rod. I was really liking the Sufix Advance I had on the baitcaster before, so I'm thinking I'm probably going to go back to that because it seems like the slight gain in sensitivity from the braid doesn't outweigh the risk of a bird's nest ruining an outing. But just wanted to get others' thoughts about braid on a baitcaster who have more experience with it than me.

 

[Jig Man]

I’ve never had any line that light on my bait casters.  I use 50#.  If you go that light again I suggest that you tighten your spool for a while.

[Fishingmickey]

     Couple of quick questions. Did you put any backing on the reel before spooling? I usually fill my baitcasters about half way with some cheap mono backing before switching over to braid.  It allows me to fill two reels with 75-100 yards of braid.

     As Jigman commented above I do go lighter then 50#. I  usually use 30 or 40# braid unless it is a punching or frogging set-up. Then I use 65# braid.

Good luck,

Fishingmickey

 

p.s. Braid birdnests can be really ugly.

 

[new2BC4bass]

Stick with 40# or heavier until you get used to properly using braid on a baitcast reel.  Keep the braid snug on the spool.  Whenever I feel the line is getting loose, I make a long cast and hold the line between my thumb and first finger and maintain pressure on the line while reeling back in.  That should eliminate your problem.

 

 

[plawren53202]

2 minutes ago, Fishingmickey said:

     Couple of quick questions. Did you put any backing on the reel before spooling? I usually fill my baitcasters about half way with some cheap mono backing before switching over to braid.  

 

I left on some of the Sufix Advance (mono/copolymer) that was already on there as backing. 

[islandbass]

You most likely experienced what we call line dig. This happens with braid that is 20# test of less. Step up to at least 30# or better yes higher than that. I too am a bank angler. It can happen whenever you exert enough force using your rod and reel to free your lure from a snag. The more you exert the more the line digs into itself On the spool because the line is so thin. 
 

The best way to eliminate is as I said to increase the thickness of the braid. 
 

one way to reduce it if you insist on using braid that thin is to remove the the rod and reel from the snag releasing process or any process that will dig the line into the spool. 
 

heavier have a good chance of busting through the line dig than lighter lures. The latter can get stopped cold turkey in the air, drop and hello nest without a matrix-able thumb. 

[plawren53202]

11 minutes ago, islandbass said:

You most likely experienced what we call line dig. This happens with braid that is 20# test of less. Step up to at least 30# or better yes higher than that. I too am a bank angler. It can happen whenever you exert enough force using your rod and reel to free your lure from a snag. The more you exert the more the line digs into itself On the spool because the line is so thin. 
 

The best way to eliminate is as I said to increase the thickness of the braid.

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments--exactly why I post on here. Sounds like the 20# braid and line dig is the culprit. I was throwing a weightless fluke, which I can usually throw on this rod on mono/copolymer but I'm certain the fluke was not heavy enough to pull out a line dig like a heavier bait would. So I would bet that's what happened.

 

I have an out-of-town fishing trip coming up this weekend, and want as much time with the line in the water as possible, so I think I'm gonna switch back to Sufix Advance for this weekend. Then if I try the braid experiment again later, I'll be sure to go with something heavier.

 

Here's another related question: in reading up/watching videos on whether to go with braid on my baitcaster, some people expressed concern about braid being too unforgiving for some applications. I know a lot of people throw a frog on braid; seems like it would work okay with a jig or weighted texas rig baits. But this baitcaster has to be my jack of all trades, so it gets a lot of use with a crankbait, chatterbait, spinnerbait and soft swimbait as well. I had heard some people say that braid doesn't work as well with these reaction or swimming type of baits. 

 

Since I do throw a lot of reaction and swimming baits on this rod, should I stick with the Advance? I found the Sufix Advance to be pretty low stretch so it seemed to be working okay with jigs and t-rigs. 

[PhishLI]

What you described isn't necessarily due to the braid digging in. Where plastic lines may slightly fluff and often correct midcast, braid will often wrap around the spool with a head wind or a sling shotted cast that gets the spool paying out line faster than the lure is pulling it causing a bird's nest. It can happen with any size braid. Plastic lines are stiffer and braid is limp. A touch of spool tension or a bit more on the mag brake will help.

[dodgeguy]

i would not go below 50 lb braid. also braid is easier to remove a backlash from than mono or flouro and it doesnt damage the line. just jam your thumb down and reel the line in a little then push the button and pull some line off. keep repeating as needed.i would also get rid of the power pro and go to sufix 832 or tuf line domin8.

[Team9nine]

Braid on a baitcaster for all-around fishing: my advice - don’t do it. Now go do what you want ? lol

[new2BC4bass]

13 minutes ago, PhishLI said:

What you described isn't necessarily due to the braid digging in. Where plastic lines may slightly fluff and often correct midcast, braid will often wrap around the spool with a head wind or a sling shotted cast that gets the spool paying out line faster than the lure is pulling it causing a bird's nest. It can happen with any size braid. Plastic lines are stiffer and braid is limp. A touch of spool tension or a bit more on the mag brake will help.

 My first thought when seeing that light of a braid on a baitcast reel with a new user is dig in.  But you are correct.  There are other things that can cause a backlash in the middle of a cast.  One thing being an over zealous cast.  The OP never mentioned what type and weight of lure he was using.  I gather from the OP's post that wind was not a factor.

[plawren53202]

Just now, new2BC4bass said:

 My first thought when seeing that light of a braid on a baitcast reel with a new user is dig in.  But you are correct.  There are other things that can cause a backlash in the middle of a cast.  One thing being an over zealous cast.  The OP never mentioned what type and weight of lure he was using.  I gather from the OP's post that wind was not a factor.

No wind to speak of, but I was using a weightless fluke. So I could picture that leading to a little spool spin that might not normally be an issue with mono/copolymer but would be with braid, esp. 20# braid; or I could also picture that being an issue because it wouldn't be heavy enough to pull out a small line dig like a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait or jig would.

[bwjay]

I agree with the suggestions that 20lb is too light. A lot of people do use thin braid on baitcasters, but it has its drawbacks, like potential for line dig. I haven't gone below 40lb and haven't had an issue. I can pick almost any backlash out and I don't worry too much when trying to pull the line to fix a backlash since it doesn't weaken the line like it does with mono/FC/copoly.

 

As for using braid on baitcasters in general, I love it. It casts great and adds responsiveness to every technique. You just need to tie leaders... that's nothing new for braid users. For moving bait applications, braid is still great. Just don't use an XFast rod with braid for that, get something a little softer. A MH-Fast rod with a decently soft tip, 40lb braid and a 10-14lb leader, can do bottom contact and moving baits without a problem. As you get up in power for cover applications, you lose some versatility for spinnerbaits/chatterbaits/cranks as they don't load the rod as well and/or transmit the vibration of their action as well, unless of course they're big baits in which case you should be able to feel them working. Remember that you don't need an award winning home run hookset most of the time when using braid since it has basically no stretch, and a moderately swift hookset will usually do the trick even with thick wire jig hooks.

 

Keep throwin' that braid especially on a do-it-all baitcasting combo. Just step it up to 30-40lb, stick to a 10-14lb leader, and you should be fine, even with lighter baits like weightless flukes. You'll probably want to decrease your brakes and possibly loosen spool tension when throwing lighter baits, obviously putting yourself at more risk of a backlash, but heavier line = less distance so you'll want to play with it.

[plawren53202]

4 minutes ago, bwjay said:

Keep throwin' that braid especially on a do-it-all baitcasting combo. Just step it up to 30-40lb, stick to a 10-12lb leader, and you should be fine, even with lighter baits like weightless flukes. You'll probably want to decrease your brakes and possibly loosen spool tension when throwing lighter baits, obviously putting yourself at more risk of a backlash, but heavier line = less distance so you'll want to play with it.

Super helpful responses, from everyone...I've gone back and forth four or five times just in this one thread LOL. Now I think you all have convinced me to stick with braid for this weekend, but I will bump it up to 40#. I'll also leave the lighter baits like the weightless flukes for the spinning rod, at least for now.

[JediAmoeba]

I really dont understand the "dont use braid on a baitcaster" mentality.  I think fluoro and mono are disgusting and awful on baitcasters.  Braid is 10x easier to pick out backlashes should they arise, it casts way easier and it gives way better feedback on the lure.  

 

The only backlashes I have ever had that I couldn't get out were on fluoro and mono.  Small backlashes on fluoro and mono have caused way more lost lures too when I dont carefully check the line and where a link was, breaks.  

 

The best majority of my reels are spooled up with 15-30 lb braid.  

[RoLo]

 

Most of my fishing years have been spent with Berkley nylon monofilament (great line).

Today I use polyethylene braid almost exclusively (spinning & casting). 

 

In the 1990s, a new "Monofilament Leader" material was introduced called 'fluorocarbon'. 

Yes, fluorocarbon is monofilament, and yes, fluorocarbon made its debut as leader material

Early on, fluoro was sold in small packets which I used for tying saltwater leaders (tough, wiry, fat).

Over time, anglers began filling their entire line spools with fluorocarbon. No big deal, after all:

I had reel spools filled with monel and lead-core line, but never thought it would come to this.

 

In the final analysis, every angler's experience is unique. If your happy with your line of choice,

keep your doctor. 

 

Roger

[PhishLI]

35 minutes ago, JediAmoeba said:

 I think fluoro and mono are disgusting and awful on baitcasters.

I think finding a booger on a Krispy Kreme that I've already taken a bite out of would be disgusting and awful, but fluoro and mono? Ah, brother. It's not bad once you've figured it out. It just takes some figuring. Anything I throw with trebles is connected to mainline mono. Wakes, glides, WPs, etc. I lose far fewer fish due to shake offs compared to braid. I understand your frustration, but adjustments are possible with a little patience. It has it's uses once you've got it together.

[suzuki2903]

30 pound sufix 832 braid on all 10 baitcasters I use and rarely have a issue with them, a lot of times it’s more user error then anything... I will use a mono leader for treble hook lures.  
turn up the brakes a little until you’re use to the braid. 

[JediAmoeba]

10 hours ago, PhishLI said:

I think finding a booger on a Krispy Kreme that I've already taken a bite out of would be disgusting and awful, but fluoro and mono? Ah, brother. It's not bad once you've figured it out. It just takes some figuring. Anything I throw with trebles is connected to mainline mono. Wakes, glides, WPs, etc. I lose far fewer fish due to shake offs compared to braid. I understand your frustration, but adjustments are possible with a little patience. It has it's uses once you've got it together.

I have it figured out - braid is just, way better.  Any line people are telling me I need to buy a "conditioner" to use isn't optimal.  I can cast a baitcaster with the best of them and I still say braid is far more forgiving and performs better.  The only rods I use straight mono on are my large swimbait rods.  

 

I prefer to pair my rod and drag to the technique rather than use line that stretches.  I do use leaders most of the time but that has more to do with abrasion resistance and ease to retie baits.

[Bluebasser86]

20lb on a baitcaster is tricky. I like it for topwaters, but a weightless option like a fluke is asking for disaster, but you know that now. 30 or 40 is more forgiving and easier to handle. I'd opt for a spinning rod with a weightless fluke, but I'd opt not to fish a fluke if I don't have to.

[Ogandrews]

You couldn’t pay me to fish with straight floro or mono on a baitcaster. I know everyone has their own way of doing things, I just know mine is the better way. In all seriousness though don’t give up on braid, once you get it down you will be glad you did. Longer casts, better sensitivity, backlashes less often, gives you the option to throw whatever leader material you want on the same rod which makes it super versatile especially for someone using only one rod. I would strongly recommend you look into powerpro maxcuatro, it is the easiest casting and best handling braid on the market. You would think super slick would be great because of how smooth it is, but it doesn’t hold a candle to the coarse maxcuatro. For less expensive more common line than suffix 832 is a great line, thicker than maxcuatro but handles great.

[PhishLI]

1 hour ago, JediAmoeba said:

I have it figured out - braid is just, way better.  Any line people are telling me I need to buy a "conditioner" to use isn't optimal.  I can cast a baitcaster with the best of them and I still say braid is far more forgiving and performs better.  The only rods I use straight mono on are my large swimbait rods.  

 

I prefer to pair my rod and drag to the technique rather than use line that stretches.  I do use leaders most of the time but that has more to do with abrasion resistance and ease to retie baits.

By the middle of June, or possibly earlier,  through late November I'll be back to having braid on 95% of my reels. Lakes nearest to me get completely choked, so treble hook baits are pretty much out of the equation. I'm perfectly fine throwing straight braid and have nothing against it. I simply despise leader knots clunking through my guides, so I don't bother. Bottom contact fishing is not happening here, so there's no need. Besides, I'm confident braid is not a deterrent to fish buried in grass or pads. Once the veg dies down I'll be back to mono and fluoro. I was warned off of using it as mainline because of what you've described, but I've adapted and do not suffer with it. Mishaps occur, but i'm mostly OK, and I'm constantly bombing. Regardless, I've come to appreciate plastic lines even after I was sure I'd hate them. Anyway, there really aren't any rules for personal use of gear in fishing. One man's right is another man's wrong it seems. That's illustrated in technicolor every day on these pages. It's whatever makes you happy. It's all good.