Forage

[Hewhospeaksmuchbull]

We spend a lot of time pondering the behavior of Bass, but I wonder if studying the forage in our respective local waters may be equally important?

 

It seems that finding bass is usually a matter of locating shad, crayfish, ect. So with that in mind I'd like to learn more about the foods that bass seek, their behaviors and how I may use this info to better my bass locating/catching skills. Surly there are some books on this subject, can anybody point me in the direction of some resources that will help me? 

 

I'd also like to see if there is any documentation on why bass may chose one forage over another, when and why would bass chose crayfish over plentiful shad or bluegill over shad or a worm over shad or bluegill? It drives me crazy seeing gazillions of gizzard shad, yet the bass will not strike any shad imitations that I throw at them. For instance, I have been fishing my glides and wavers and wakes in gizzard shad, champ swimmer in gizzard shad, hud 68 gizzard shad, nothing not even a strike. And these bait are a perfect match not only in type of forage but also in size. I have tried these baits across the column and with every retrieve known to mankind. If I tie on a bluegill pattern swimbait I get followers but no takers. Rainbow patterns get no attention. Spinnerbait, jerkbait and crankbaits same thing, matching size, type forage = nada.

 

I feel like I'm a perfect example of Einsteins description of insanity, I am doing my best to read what is presented to me and fishing accordingly, there has to be something I'm missing. What is it?

[Hammer 4]

Frustrating isn't it..?  Could be a couple of reasons why you are not getting bit,sometimes it's the size, shape, or retrieve. It's not completely necessary to match the hatch as they say. Fish can be caught on rainbow trout swimbaits, when there are no trout in the lake/river. Same goes for almost any type of bait.

 

Example...bass are following your glide/swim bait, your retrieve is steady and when a bass follows that it figures that the bait will just take off, and it isn't inclined to chase it. OTH, when a bass is following, and suddenly the bait stops, and darts to one side or the other, then there's a better chance that it will strike, figuring the bait is wounded.

 

This is especially true with jerkbaits, stop, the continue to reel, and the fish will back off, twitch your rod once or twice, and bam you get bit. So consider your presentation and retrieve. Bass are opportunistic feeders, you just have make it easier for them.

 

If they are chasing baitballs, you want to get you bait Under the baitballs, with a bait that stands out, i.e. Shad, you could toss a fluke, but it looks just like all the other shad, add an underspin, or a flashing blade, and then they take notice, because it's different, and they key in on the flash of the blade. Hope that helps some.

[A-Jay]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:42 PM, Hewhospeaksmuchbull said:

We spend a lot of time pondering the behavior of Bass, but I wonder if studying the forage in our respective local waters may be equally important?

 

It seems that finding bass is usually a matter of locating shad, crayfish, ect. So with that in mind I'd like to learn more about the foods that bass seek, their behaviors and how I may use this info to better my bass locating/catching skills. Surly there are some books on this subject, can anybody point me in the direction of some resources that will help me? 

 

I'd also like to see if there is any documentation on why bass may chose one forage over another, when and why would bass chose crayfish over plentiful shad or bluegill over shad or a worm over shad or bluegill? It drives me crazy seeing gazillions of gizzard shad, yet the bass will not strike any shad imitations that I throw at them. For instance, I have been fishing my glides and wavers and wakes in gizzard shad, champ swimmer in gizzard shad, hud 68 gizzard shad, nothing not even a strike. And these bait are a perfect match not only in type of forage but also in size. I have tried these baits across the column and with every retrieve known to mankind. If I tie on a bluegill pattern swimbait I get followers but no takers. Rainbow patterns get no attention. Spinnerbait, jerkbait and crankbaits same thing, matching size, type forage = nada.

 

I feel like I'm a perfect example of Einsteins description of insanity, I am doing my best to read what is presented to me and fishing accordingly, there has to be something I'm missing. What is it?

 An interesting aspect of bass fishing is that success can and often does come utilizing so many different approaches & philosophies. 

I am a big proponent of fishing for 'feeding fish'.  

So it stands to reason, that knowing something about what the bass may be looking to feed on, could be most beneficial.

What, where & when are three biggies right off the bat, as far as 'bass food', is concerned. 

Accordingly I've spent some time learning what I can about what the brown bass I'm most often fishing for eat.

It's paid off a few times too. 

Finally, IMO the bold text above, might not need to be regarded with the highest priority. 

No artificial bait can or ever will be a perfect match to forage.  

I have no clue how a bass 'sees' a bait - might be completely different from the way I see it. 

While I totally agree with presenting baits that are similar in size, shape, color & profile - as well as at the same depth as what I think a bass might be looking to eat - It ends there. 

My lifeless hard or soft plastic presentation, wire & metal bladed bait or spinner bait for instance, lacks any of the 'real life forces' that every living creature possesses.  

Whether a bass can & does cue in on that I can not say for sure. 

But what experience has taught me is that coming close, is often good enough.   

For when I get it right - bass eat my bait. 

And that may be all that matters. 

That's my story and I'm stinking to it.

A-Jay

[Harold Scoggins]

50 minutes ago, Hammer 4 said:

Frustrating isn't it..?  Could be a couple of reasons why you are not getting bit,sometimes it's the size, shape, or retrieve. It's not completely necessary to match the hatch as they say. Fish can be caught on rainbow trout swimbaits, when there are no trout in the lake/river. Same goes for almost any type of bait.

 

Example...bass are following your glide/swim bait, your retrieve is steady and when a bass follows that it figures that the bait will just take off, and it isn't inclined to chase it. OTH, when a bass is following, and suddenly the bait stops, and darts to one side or the other, then there's a better chance that it will strike, figuring the bait is wounded.

 

This is especially true with jerkbaits, stop, the continue to reel, and the fish will back off, twitch your rod once or twice, and bam you get bit. So consider your presentation and retrieve. Bass are opportunistic feeders, you just have make it easier for them.

 

If they are chasing baitballs, you want to get you bait Under the baitballs, with a bait that stands out, i.e. Shad, you could toss a fluke, but it looks just like all the other shad, add an underspin, or a flashing blade, and then they take notice, because it's different, and they key in on the flash of the blade. Hope that helps some.

 

10 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

 An interesting aspect of bass fishing is that success can and often does come utilizing so many different approaches & philosophies. 

I am a big proponent of fishing for 'feeding fish'.  

So it stands to reason, that knowing something about what the bass may be looking to feed on, could be most beneficial.

How, where & when are three biggies right off the bat, as far as 'bass food, is concerned. 

Accordingly I've spent some time learning what I can about what the brown bass I'm most often fishing for eat.

It's paid off a few times too. 

Finally, IMO the bold text above, might not need to regarded with the highest priority. 

No artificial bait can or ever will be a perfect match to forage.  

I have no clue how a bass 'sees' a bait - might be completely different from the way I see it. 

While I totally agree with presenting baits that are similar in size, shape, color & profile - and well as at the same depth as what I think a bass might be looking to eat - It ends there. 

My lifeless hard or soft plastic presentation, wire & metal bladed bait or spinner bait for instance, lacks any of the 'real life forces' that every living creature possesses.  

Whether a bass can & does cue in on that I can not say for sure. 

But what experience has taught me is that coming close, is often good enough.   

For when I get it right - bass eat my bait. 

And that may be all that matters. 

That's my story and I'm stinking to it.

A-Jay

X3!

I'm glad @Hammer 4 mentioned the Rainbow Trout swimbaits being used in waters where there are no trout. If I had a dime for every time I heard someone say you can't catch bass with a trout bait in a lake with no trout, I could make one heck of good JDM order. Apparently, no one bothered to tell the bass in some of the lakes where I've thrown trout swimbaits where there are no trout in the lake, because those same bass have slammed my trout swimbaits. I like @A-Jay's comment about matching the hatch too. Don't be afraid to think outside the box when it comes to this game. "Nothing is written." - Thomas E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom

[Bluebasser86]

6 hours ago, Harold Scoggins said:

 

X3!

I'm glad @Hammer 4 mentioned the Rainbow Trout swimbaits being used in waters where there are no trout. If I had a dime for every time I heard someone say you can't catch bass with a trout bait in a lake with no trout, I could make one heck of good JDM order. Apparently, no one bothered to tell the bass in some of the lakes where I've thrown trout swimbaits where there are no trout in the lake, because those same bass have slammed my trout swimbaits. I like @A-Jay's comment about matching the hatch too. Don't be afraid to think outside the box when it comes to this game. "Nothing is written." - Thomas E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom

One of my best crank colors during the winter months is a red craw, despite the fact that the predominate forage in the lake is gizzard shad (I've actually never seen a live craw there), but the bass love that red.

[Hammer 4]

1 hour ago, Bluebasser86 said:

One of my best crank colors during the winter months is a red craw, despite the fact that the predominate forage in the lake is gizzard shad (I've actually never seen a live craw there), but the bass love that red.

The red/craw cranks also holds true here in almost all of our fisheries, especially the high pressured park lakes/ponds. I've had days when I could not get a strike on anything cept a red crank..

[Koz]

8 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

One of my best crank colors during the winter months is a red craw, despite the fact that the predominate forage in the lake is gizzard shad (I've actually never seen a live craw there), but the bass love that red.

 

In my neck of the woods I've never caught a bass on a red bait - but the catfish down here love that color!

[WRB]

You shoukd study the prey types in your lake that bass prefer. 

LMB bass come in a least 3 strains; northern, Florida and intergrades of northern-Florida. Each of the LMB strains have different behavior traits, so it's also important to know about the bass you are targeting.

The OP talks about Gizzard Shad as a bass forage, the problem is Gizzard Shad grow as big as the average size LMB, about 5 lbs. LMB can only eat prey that they can swallow, they may be curious about larger size prey and strike it but generally aviod trying to eat prey that is too large or too difficult to swallow.

As a general rule LMB prefer slender shape prey or young of the year prey.

Florida strian LMB are genenitically wired to seek golden shiners as a prey source, no splines and slender shape, stocked rainbow trout are a perfect substitute.

Northern LMB are genetically wired to seek a wider range of prey types that include young of the year perch, crappie, bluegill and a wide range of minnows.

Northern-Florida intergrades have a combination of genetic prey preferences.

All LMB, Smallmouth and Spotted bass eat crayfish, frogs, salamanders, worms, snakes and a wide range or terrestrial animals like mice, rats, lizards, insects and birds.

I would start with learning about the prey fish behavior and locations.

For example Shad, Threadfin verses Gizzard. Threadfin are vegetarians eating phytoplankton. Gizzard Shad are zooplankton and insect eaters. Shad are pelagic fish that hide during darkness in or around cover and move away from shore during day light hours...if their food source is away from shore.

Coloration is another topic all together, bass are primarily sight feeders so colors the bass can see easily are a good choice. Clear water more natural colors similar to the prey is a good choice. Off color water with less light brighter colors the can see at a longer distance are good choices. 

No set in concrete rules apply, it's called fishing for a reason.

Tom

[Raul]

Honestly ?

 

I no longer pay attention to "forage" regardless of what species it is nor do I trouble myself with "matching the hatch", there are no itsy bitsy spinnerbaits schooling in the waters I fish nor I have ever seen a trout in the warm water lakes I fish most of the time, the only thing that matters to me is trying to make my lure look "alive" and behave like if it's an easy prey.

[scaleface]

I dont ignore the forage  but if there are gazillion shad and the bass are not schooling up on them , then I found its best to fish like they are not there .Double down on cover and structure with lures that ares suitable for  the cover and structure you encounter .

[OCdockskipper]

When it comes to forage, I have found it is more important to imitate where the forage typically is and how it behaves than trying to match exactly what it looks like.

 

For example, if crawfish are a primary forage in a lake, over the years, the bass in that lake will generally eat things off the bottom, in areas where the crawfish tend to be.  If threadfin shad are the primary forage, you can expect the bass in that lake in the fall to follow them up creek arms and bust the schools up on the surface.

 

Those lakes on the east coast that have had blueback herring introduced are excellent examples of how the basses behavior changes in relation to their primary forage.  In many of those lakes, most of the spotted bass and many of the largemouth have changed & become pelagic in order to continue to feed of the herring.

 

It doesn't hurt to imitate the size and color of forage (especially in clearer waters), but it is down the checklist.

[Hewhospeaksmuchbull]

Man a lot of great info, Thanks everyone.

 

Seeing as there is so much forage I wonder if the Bass are even hungry?

Having this thought I am thinking timing may be my problem, that or I need to get way outside the box. I've thrown every thing I own at them, I'll have to see what the bait Monkey has up its sleeve. I've tried morning and late afternoon/evening/night, in the mornings I am not seeing fish but in the late afternoon and evenings I am, gonna try and see if the sweet spot lies some where between.

 

I am starting to spend more time reading the water, looking for changes. Got a big ole Osprey where I'm fishing. When he's around so are the shad and baby strippers(maybe a stripper pattern bait will get'em?) so maybe the time to fish here is when the Osprey/shad are not around? Another thing I have observed is no bluegill, the bass come up into the shallows but not the bluegill.

 

I've resisted changing lines, going with the bass are not line shy. I've done well with braid in the water I'm fishing which is (pretty d**n clear) in the past. Think I'll change one rig to mono or add a leader to all and see for myself if there is a difference.

 

These spots have become an obsession, it's come to the point that I gonna have to start logging. I cant keep whats what straight in my head.

 

So frustrating, in the past 7 days I have one monster red ear to my name. Put a 5/0 straight through his head when he dared to harass my catfish bait.

[scaleface]

You havent described the water you are fishing . 

[roadwarrior]

"Match the hatch" is a trout fishing term and has VERY LITTLE importance for bass fishing.

 

[TnRiver46]

On 11/24/2019 at 3:03 PM, Hewhospeaksmuchbull said:

Man a lot of great info, Thanks everyone.

 

Seeing as there is so much forage I wonder if the Bass are even hungry?

Having this thought I am thinking timing may be my problem, that or I need to get way outside the box. I've thrown every thing I own at them, I'll have to see what the bait Monkey has up its sleeve. I've tried morning and late afternoon/evening/night, in the mornings I am not seeing fish but in the late afternoon and evenings I am, gonna try and see if the sweet spot lies some where between.

 

I am starting to spend more time reading the water, looking for changes. Got a big ole Osprey where I'm fishing. When he's around so are the shad and baby strippers(maybe a stripper pattern bait will get'em?) so maybe the time to fish here is when the Osprey/shad are not around? Another thing I have observed is no bluegill, the bass come up into the shallows but not the bluegill.

 

I've resisted changing lines, going with the bass are not line shy. I've done well with braid in the water I'm fishing which is (pretty d**n clear) in the past. Think I'll change one rig to mono or add a leader to all and see for myself if there is a difference.

 

These spots have become an obsession, it's come to the point that I gonna have to start logging. I cant keep whats what straight in my head.

 

So frustrating, in the past 7 days I have one monster red ear to my name. Put a 5/0 straight through his head when he dared to harass my catfish bait.

Bass are always hungry, even when they arent! I’ve caught them when they were barfing and pooping Shad everywhere. I caught one with a plastic worm that barfed up a bullfrog on the way in. But, they have to rest just like anything else. You can catch a resting fish but it’s not easy, actively feeding bass are gluttons. If you are seeing osprey this time of year, then you must be down pretty far south or close to the ocean. Our ospreys have already left for winter, now we just have eagles and ring billed gulls. Have you tried a plastic worm with no sinker? Also I firmly believe bass can be line shy, there’s a reason every single pro uses 4-6 lb test during winter tournaments around here on the smallmouth water. The way a smallie fights, they would all be using 50 lb braid if they could 

[schplurg]

On 11/22/2019 at 2:19 PM, Harold Scoggins said:

 

X3!

I'm glad @Hammer 4 mentioned the Rainbow Trout swimbaits being used in waters where there are no trout. If I had a dime for every time I heard someone say you can't catch bass with a trout bait in a lake with no trout, I could make one heck of good JDM order. Apparently, no one bothered to tell the bass in some of the lakes where I've thrown trout swimbaits where there are no trout in the lake, because those same bass have slammed my trout swimbaits. I like @A-Jay's comment about matching the hatch too. Don't be afraid to think outside the box when it comes to this game. "Nothing is written." - Thomas E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom

I don't think my lake has any bright solid-colored chartreuse fish swimming around with big plastic bills and two hooks dangling from it but they bite that too

[Hewhospeaksmuchbull]

On 11/24/2019 at 2:07 PM, scaleface said:

You havent described the water you are fishing . 

Clear to lightly stained, fast moving during the week canal. Banks are covered in tullies and other plant growth with some rocks and boulders. Bottom is rocky gravel w/larger rocks to sand with some mud. I haven't found any depth gauges but I think max depth in normal conditions to be 15'. There are some bridges, wash pass through/under, concrete spillways and grates, gates to feed smaller canals. Canal is 80-100' in width with some larger "coves" or really wide spots.

 

I'll get water temp today.

 

When it was warmer I had no problem catching fish in the before mentioned cover/structure, now I dont see fish at these features unless its mid morning or late afternoon/evening(I now know why) and these fish are finicky at best(this is my problem). I can for example float a weightless worm right in front of the fish and nothing, give the worm a twitch and the fish bails. Another guy I have been fishing with presents a fly to them and same thing.

 

In case someone is reading and missed this as I did,

Know thy shad- Part 1
Know thy shad- Part II
Bait fish by season?
 

[WRB]

What specie of bass are in this current running canal?

My Cosmic Clock and Bass Calendar goes into some basic bass behavior related to deep structure lakes and the general behavior shouldn't change where ever regional area the bass are located. Canal with current ecosystem would be similar to a river without the meandering effecting current breaks or river bed underwater channel structure. Canal only has man made structure elements for the bass to use to ambush prey or break the current, the prey only has sparse areas of plant cover. The prime location should be where structure and cover come together.

Anglers can't seem to accept bass have active feeding periods and inactive down time with transition periods inbetween I call nuetral activity. Active bass are the fish we catch most of the time with nuetral bass filling inbetween the inactive bass that are not interested in feeding. 

It's our task to locate active feeding bass, there are always a few bass feeding somewhere on there own time table.

Right time, place and presentation = success. Putting that together isn't always easy.

Color is important to get the bass attention, matching the coloration the bass is looking for often finalizes the commitment to strike the lure, especially those neutral bass.

Tom

[Bigassbass]

Fish eat and strike at everything that moves at least once.  It isn't as scientific as we try to make it but it sure is fun!  That's why it's called fishing instead of catching.  lol