AAARRGG! Connection knot!

[5/0]

I’ve be practicing the Alberto knot every day. I got so I could tie it decently and it had a pretty low profile.

So I tie a leader of 12# Yozuri Hybrid to 30# PP and went out to practice casting. The knot was clanging the rod guides so much that at first I thought it was my reel making the noise. It was also sticking in the guides causing backlash. The knot was placed between my reel and the first guide when the bait was held at reel level.

So I shortened the leader to about four feet. The knot then stuck at the last guide when I tried to let out some line to practice pitching.

What the hell am I doing wrong! I’m so mad I could smoke a pickle!

 

 

[Darren.]

Does your rod have micro guides?

 

And YZH at #12 is a decent diameter (i.e., large), so could be

adding to the issue.

 

Try Shin's knot, it's a bit smaller profile. And get ready for the

FG boys to chime in...

 

 

[Khoa Vu]

I myself also prefer the Shin's Lazy Alberto knot over both Albright and Alberto knots. Micro guides will definitely hinder the ability for the knot to pass through properly. Another thing is how you cut the tag end off. Try cutting the tag end of mono/flouro at an angle so it "slides" through the guide. If you cut it square, the edge of the line will catch more often than not. 

[5/0]

It’s an old bait casting rod, G Loomis MBR 784. The Alberto was tied with 7 wraps up and 7 back.

I even put a dab of super glue on the knot ends.

[waymont]

9 minutes ago, 5/0 said:

It’s an old bait casting rod, G Loomis MBR 784. The Alberto was tied with 7 wraps up and 7 back.

I even put a dab of super glue on the knot ends.

Was your superglue dab big enough to make a little clump? Could have been that causing your issue.

I'm an FG knot guy chiming in. haha

[Jig Man]

When you put the super glue on lick your finger and thumb to wet them then roll the glued knot between them.  That will make it smaller.

[5/0]

Does the Shinn knot end the same as Alberto with braid coming out the loop in the same direction?

Are 10 wraps enough for bait casting?

[hwright38]

Make sure you're cutting your leader tag end very short. I you leave too much out it will catch like crazy. Tackle Advisors has a good video showing how you can cut it pretty much as short as your cutters will allow.

[SmugOne]

I’ve never had an issue even with larger diameter line. I do 10 wraps and cut the tag ends as close as possible, and I don’t use super glue. I do not have any micro guides on any of my rods either though.  

 

Shin’s knot looks pretty good.  Can anyone with experience with it speak to the pros and cons? Very curious to know if the knot strength is comparable to the Alberto.

[Deleted account]

No glue, and clip the leader tag flush with the braid wraps.

[FishingGeekTX]

Why use a leader for freshwater fishing, is it for pike for pike or something?

Do you often hang lures so bad you have to cut long lines?  If not, I wouldn't mess with a leader.  Even if I did, I'm not sure I'd mess with a leader.

[Darren.]

17 minutes ago, SmugOne said:

Shin’s knot looks pretty good.  Can anyone with experience with it speak to the pros and cons? Very curious to know if the knot strength is comparable to the Alberto.

I've been using it for a while now, no real cons found at this point.

Has held up to a lot of fish, snags, etc. Has held up extremely well.

Quite happy with it thus far.

[redux]

Just learn to tie the FG and use a Rizzuto finish knot. It is a smaller and smoother knot that will not be an issue in your guides. All the other leader knots have a tag from the leader that will catch in your guides on the way out. Once you are proficient with the FG it does not take a long time to tie even on the water.

 

Why use a leader? Braid floats and inhibits the fall of light baits and weightless plastics. Not good. Flouro sinks and allows the baits to work more naturally. Good.

 

Also, braid will cut into wood the same way it cuts into vegetation. That creates noise as the braid saws into the wood and leads to you getting hung up when the braid cuts deep enough. Not good. Flouro hugs the wood so it does not cut into it and does not make noise as it moves across the wood. Good.

 

 

[VinnyR]

I know a lot of guys refuse to use the FG knot but this is exactly where it excels. If the problem is that the knot is too bulky, use a knot where the leader isn't folded over and inherently thicker than the FG knot. I use Alberto for my 6-8# leader but FG for the thicker fluoro.

 

Yeah it takes a little longer to tie but it's not something you're gonna be retying throughout the day in most cases. If it is, it takes an extra minute or two (once you get it down) but it's well worth it IMHO. Maybe the shins knot will work better for you but I don't know why it would if it's gonna have the same bulk (but hey I've been wrong before)

[LionHeart]

FG knot,  period. 

 

[Happybeerbuzz]

It’s so pretty...

 

[5/0]

Thanks for the responses! As stated, the FG guys showed up!

So I tried it a couple times today but couldn’t keep the braid taught enough. The overhands to seal the knot were not cinching down to the end of the knot.

Any ideas on how I can improve these?

[Smalls]

1 hour ago, 5/0 said:

Thanks for the responses! As stated, the FG guys showed up!

So I tried it a couple times today but couldn’t keep the braid taught enough. The overhands to seal the knot were not cinching down to the end of the knot.

Any ideas on how I can improve these?

Put the leader on the floor and step on it with enough to do your knot. 

[WRB]

Why use braid with a leader? No leader or no braid problem solved.

Tom

[VinnyR]

I'd say just lean your rod against something and hold the line in your teeth, it doesn't have to be completely taught. Or if you're at home, let out a few feet and dangle the reel over the side of a table. Keep pulling the leader tight after each time it over/under the braid.

 

For the overhand knots I'm not really sure. I always make my braid knots really wet. Other than that just make sure as you cinch it down it's lining up just outside of your loops. I think it's just practice makes perfect

[LionHeart]

7 hours ago, 5/0 said:

Thanks for the responses! As stated, the FG guys showed up!

So I tried it a couple times today but couldn’t keep the braid taught enough. The overhands to seal the knot were not cinching down to the end of the knot.

Any ideas on how I can improve these?

I'm not going to be able to describe the process of how to tie an FG knot in any way that would be useful to you.  When I was learning to tie it, I watched just about every video there is on YouTube.  "SaltStrong" has a really good one.

 

The one thing that everyone seems to leave out is that once you finish with all of your wraps and tie the first half hitch to lock them in place, you really need to cinch the knot down hard.  I use a couple of wooden dowels for this.  You can't just give the knot a good tug, and expect it to hold.  You need to pull as hard as you can without snapping your leader line.  

 

As for the finishing knot, I used the rizzuto finish for a while (and it is pretty good), but what I have come to prefer is alternating half hitches.  After cinching the FG wraps HARD, I tie 4 alternating half hitches around the braid main line and the tag of my leader, then clip the tag of my leader.  Then I tie 4 more alternating half hitches around just the braid.  Done.  This knot will be extremely strong and will not have to be retied for a very long time.   I tie it at home and it can take me between 5-10 minutes per rod (what?), but once it's done, it will be done for a long time.  The only reason I retie is if my leader gets too short or starts to look discolored from UV and I begin to doubt the integrity of the leader line itself.

 

The FG can be a pain to learn how to tie properly, but once you get it you wont want to use anything else.

7 hours ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

It’s so pretty...

 

That looks awesome!

[Timberwolf530]

"I’m so mad I could smoke a pickle!" - First of all, if I were you, I would work on a different phrase for describing how angry you are.  Second.  I use the Alberto exclusively for leader attachment because the FG is just too hard to do in the boat.  I never have any problems with it getting stuck, even with micro guides, unless I don't trim the leader tag down far enough.  I've started to use fingernail clippers for this because I find I just cannot get close enough with scissors.

[bwjay]

I use the Double Uni with 40lb Sufix832 and Super8SlickV2 along with 14lb Sniper and I have no issues with it hanging up on micro guides or on the line guide of the reel. I trim the tag ends very close to the knot. I can't speak for what's going on with your Alberto knot but it's supposed to be a smaller knot than the Double Uni. If the Double Uni can have no issues with micro guides, then I suspect you are doing something incorrectly, but what, I can't say.

[fin]

One thing that’s never really made clear in Alberto instructions is how to tighten it up. Once you finish the wraps and run the tag back through the loop, pull on the tag to tighten a little, then pull on the braid to tighten a little, then put your thumbnail at the base of the wrap end and push the wraps back toward the loop end. Then tighten by pulling the braid again. The knot should end up about 1/8” long and be as tight and symmetrical as that picture of the FG knot, but not near as long.

 

You can mess up by pushing the wrap too far before tightening.

[Mikeltee]

Just run straight braid or a leader just long enough to cast effectively and not enter the tip top. You won't be able to solve this issue. It will always hit your guides no matter what you tie. With some lines and knots, this can be minimized but it's still going to happen. I gave up on leaders as soon as I got a rod good enough to see that it makes a drastic change in the rods performance and casting a 3' leader outside the guides is just silly imo. If you are in ultra clear water just run flouro. If you are worried about diminished sensitivity in doing so, get a better rod.