Bow graph recommendations.

[TheRodFather]

Hey fellas, I need a graph for my bow.  I currently have a garmin echomap 73sv at the console, but I wouldn't be opposed to going in a different direction with the bow, and then changing the console unit down the road if garmin is not the best choice up front.  I would love to have them networked, but don't want to invest in another garmin unit just for networking, IF garmin is not the best path overall.

 

I am new to LM on lakes fishing and have a lot to learn about finding the fish.  I have been having some success reading my contour maps and putting a pattern together, but not having a graph on the bow is frustrating once I start fishing.  I have I-Pilot on my TM, so that helps, once I find a spot I like while driving, I can be locked on and just fish. But I still feel blind, and trolling around trying to follow the contour is tough.  I do not have I-Pilot link, and it cannot be gotten for my Powerdrive, that I know of.

 

I am a little confused on what features I do and do not want in a bow unit (side imaging?).  And whether or not I will need a different transducer than what comes in the boxes from the big 3.

 

What are your recommendations at 1500 or less, with possible future additions in mind?  

[Sprocket]

I would go with the 93sv Plus up front.  If for no other reason you can add Panoptix or Livescope in the future.

 

SE Kansas grass grower

[TheRodFather]

Can the transdsucer that comes with it be mounted on the TM without further purchases?

[12poundbass]

20 minutes ago, TheRodFather said:

Can the transdsucer that comes with it be mounted on the TM without further purchases?

Yes. It has an adapter so mounting to a TM is simple

[jaimeastin]

Have Garmin on my console and bow, networked.  Both are Garmin echomap plus 93sv.  I used to have the echo chirp 7sv and the plus.  The down and side imaging work fine for me.    I did add the UHD transducer on the transom which gives me high resolution down and side fro.m the back.  So that helps with scouting. 

 

On the bow I now pretty much use livescope and traditional exclusively.  

 

I have used electronics for years and all have been Garmin.  I bought a new lowrance ti and echomapto upgrade my bow unit to test... I ended up returning the lowrance and upgraded all of my Garmin units to my current setup.   Expensive, but I am happy. Garmin units make since and I never thought touchscreen would help, but it's nice.  

 

The new ultra units are nice.  They network out if the box and the livescope can be addyfor $500 more.  

 

Like I said, you can network for less if you want to go the DIY route.  I can help with that.  I make my own cables as well, which I have boxes of sheilded cable.

 

[WRB]

If you are now familiar with Garmin units and satisfied with their operating screens and menu changing brands may not be in your best interest. 

I am not familiar with Garmin units or TD's, most side scanning units TD's are large and difficult to TM mount effectively. Forward and down looking TM units are helpful.

Good luck

Tom

 

[TheRodFather]

33 minutes ago, WRB said:

If you are now familiar with Garmin units and satisfied with their operating screens and menu changing brands may not be in your best interest. 

I am not familiar with Garmin units or TD's, most side scanning units TD's are large and difficult to TM mount effectively. Forward and down looking TM units are helpful.

Good luck

Tom

 

Well, I guess I am familiar with the Garmin, but I don't want to spend 1000 plus for a unit that is inferior to other brands, simply because I am more familiar with it.  I'm not at a place (yet), where I am so invested in one brand that it is unrealistic to change direction.  If I buy a Garmin for the bow, I am officially invested in Garmin as far as I'm concerned.  Which is fine if they are on par with everything else out there.  But if not, now is the time to change directions.

 

At my current skill level of using the unit, I probably can't tell the difference between Garmin/lowrance/HD performance.  But as I get better, I don't want the equipment to limit me (within my price point of course)  If money was no object, I'm sure there is some killer tech out there and of course huge screens. 

 

Is it safe to say that all of the big 3 are close enough in performance that it really just comes down to preference?

[jaimeastin]

As long as your Garmin unit has a transducer model nber starting with GT... You will.be fine.  

 

Most of the Garmin flack was due to them being sued by lowrance and their down imaging solution... The clearvu with CV... Down imaging was not as good to some people.  Now that the smoke has cleared, Garmin is doing the down imaging the same as others.

 

If there is any remote interest in Livescope, you need to go with Garmin.  You can see lowrance's livesight, but it is looking like Garmin's all seeing sonar, and not livescop and the mount is not as versatile.  

 

It's is also a great time.  Garmin and lowrance is coming out with their own trolling motors. Go to a few stores and touch and play.  

 

the images below are from my UHD GT transducers. That is side and down of an area I was trying out.

[TheRodFather]

Should I be interested in Livescope?  Thats a lot of money.....

[jaimeastin]

4 hours ago, TheRodFather said:

Should I be interested in Livescope?  Thats a lot of money.....

 

Well... I personal opinion is like most electronics outside of traditional, they are nice but not necessary.  Livescope is the very best thing I have used to let me know what is truely Below the boat.  It's not perfect and in time, I am sure it will be better, and cheaper.

 

Here is a quick vodeo of me using it with my wife on night.  We had so much fun.  I have used it for bass, blugill, and catfish. Still working on it to give a solid review 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BxCacPnFN1k/?igshid=1bpflocsb4csq

 

[TheRodFather]

I am so overloaded with info right now.  It almost sickens me to see how much this stuff costs.  It seems ridiculous to spend the kind of money it would take to have (for example) a 12 on the bow, and 2 9s on the console.

 

I love to fish as much as the next guy, but d**n, is this what is needed to catch fish?

[Way north bass guy]

47 minutes ago, TheRodFather said:

 

I love to fish as much as the next guy, but d**n, is this what is needed to catch fish?

 No, you don’t “need” any of it at all. I have a Helix 9si on the bow and a 10si mega at the console. I absolutely love how they work for me, and I wouldn’t get rid of them, that’s for sure, but I also caught a ton of fish from all my boats over the years with far less superior electronics. Anyone that thinks they must have the latest, greatest electronics to catch a bass, really needs to spend some time familiarizing themselves with a lot more other things about bass fishing first. I’ve seen some boats that have multiple graphs and the latest, greatest of everything on them, with zero fish brought over the sides. 

[jaimeastin]

On 5/26/2019 at 1:34 PM, TheRodFather said:

I am so overloaded with info right now.  It almost sickens me to see how much this stuff costs.  It seems ridiculous to spend the kind of money it would take to have (for example) a 12 on the bow, and 2 9s on the console.

 

I love to fish as much as the next guy, but d**n, is this what is needed to catch fish?

 

No it is not needed.  I have it all for content for my YouTube channel, to be competitive since I plan to do more tournaments, and just because I had the opportunity to splurge.

 

Personally, while I have had fun with the livescope, I have also wasted/invested a lot of time into it.

 

At the end if the day, I do well with traditional sonar.  Down imaging and side are good for scouting but we're not game changers for me.  They give me just a little information and I am not dazzled by the pretty things I see.  Traditional shows me fish and I start there.  

 

Livescope shows me active fish and distinguishes fish species pretty dang good.

[TheRodFather]

Ok, let me ask this:

 

If I picked up a 73cv for now (not in a place to spend 1000 plus at the moment, got to keep wife happy ), and put it on the bow, networking would allow me to share waypoints with the rear unit correct?  What about transducer data?  Meaning, could the front unit look at what the transom transducer is looking at (side vu)?  

 

The reason I ask, is if at a later date, I get what I really want on the bow, and I move the bow 73 back to the console with my other 73sv, one for mapping, one for sonar scouting, do I need two transducers mounted on the transom, or can they both use the gt52 I currently have on my transom?  If I use the 73cv for mapping, do I even need a transducer for it?

 

How do they network together, bluetooth, cat5 cable?

 

 

[jaimeastin]

On 6/8/2019 at 5:26 PM, TheRodFather said:

Ok, let me ask this:

 

If I picked up a 73cv for now (not in a place to spend 1000 plus at the moment, got to keep wife happy ), and put it on the bow, networking would allow me to share waypoints with the rear unit correct?  What about transducer data?  Meaning, could the front unit look at what the transom transducer is looking at (side vu)?  

 

The reason I ask, is if at a later date, I get what I really want on the bow, and I move the bow 73 back to the console with my other 73sv, one for mapping, one for sonar scouting, do I need two transducers mounted on the transom, or can they both use the gt52 I currently have on my transom?  If I use the 73cv for mapping, do I even need a transducer for it?

 

How do they network together, bluetooth, cat5 cable?

 

 

 

Okay.. here is the deal.

 

If you want to network the echomap, you need to either have both echomap "plus" units or just echomap chirp.  

 

Your current unit sounds like echomap chirp, so your need unit needs to be a en echomap chirp.  You network the two units by connect the the blue and brown wires together from both units m. Blue to brown and brown to blue.  They are just basic bidirectional cables.  You can share waypoints.  You cannot share sonar information.  This is the same for the striker units

 

Garmin added network support via cat5 to the echomap plus.  The echomap chirp will not network to the plus units at all.  The blue/brown cable is now used for a different transmission.  I talked to Garmin about this.  I really think it was a bad confusing move.

 

Now.  The plus units are fully networkable.  You can share livescope and soner via their dedicated black boxes GLS10 (livescope) & gcv20/gt34 (has 3 network ports plus HD sonar).

 

I was able to make a network hub for my Garmin units for about $50.  Garmin and other companies charge $200 plus for a network hub.  I will be making a video soon to show everyone how to do this.

[TheRodFather]

10 hours ago, jaimeastin said:

 

Okay.. here is the deal.

 

If you want to network the echomap, you need to either have both echomap "plus" units or just echomap chirp.  

 

Your current unit sounds like echomap chirp, so your need unit needs to be a en echomap chirp.  You network the two units by connect the the blue and brown wires together from both units m. Blue to brown and brown to blue.  They are just basic bidirectional cables.  You can share waypoints.  You cannot share sonar information.  This is the same for the striker units

 

Garmin added network support via cat5 to the echomap plus.  The echomap chirp will not network to the plus units at all.  The blue/brown cable is now used for a different transmission.  I talked to Garmin about this.  I really think it was a bad confusing move.

 

Now.  The plus units are fully networkable.  You can share livescope and soner via their dedicated black boxes GLS10 (livescope) & gcv20/gt34 (has 3 network ports plus HD sonar).

 

I was able to make a network hub for my Garmin units for about $50.  Garmin and other companies charge $200 plus for a network hub.  I will be making a video soon to show everyone how to do this.

 

My current 73sv unit is a Plus unit, but unfortunately I must have an earlier unit, because I have the CV transducer.  I was never really all that impressed with side scan and down view, and maybe that's why.  I just thought there wasn't much of any cover in the lakes I fish, maybe it's the transducer though.

 

So maybe I would be better off getting another (newer) 73sv for now, like I mentioned in the last post, that would come with the GT52 TD, and put it on the transom in place of the CV TD, for side scan scouting purposes.  Then putting the CV TD on the trolling motor for 2d and mapping/holding position.  (for now).

 

So just so I'm clear though, I can network another plus to my plus and look at whatever transducer I want between the two.  But the Plus's only have one ethernet port each, so if I wanted to add Livescope down the road to those two units, I would need the $1500 panoptix bundle, and that would allow me to network the panoptix and my two plus units all together, without any other purchases, correct?

 

Long term, I want to have two units on the console, an Ultra unit on the bow, and then panoptix (the ultra just needs the transducer as you know), at that point would I be able to link all three together and have livescope without any other purchases?

 

Thanks for the help, trying to plan for the long haul and would be ticked to find I can't "get there from here".

 

 

[redmexican5081]

I believe to link everything together you would still need a network hub.  Console to console just a cable will work but if you add in the panoptix and want it to share stuff between units you've added a 3rd port into the equation and need something that connects the 3 together.

[TheRodFather]

12 hours ago, redmexican5081 said:

I believe to link everything together you would still need a network hub.  Console to console just a cable will work but if you add in the panoptix and want it to share stuff between units you've added a 3rd port into the equation and need something that connects the 3 together.

 

Yeah now that you say that, I think you are right.  The ultra has 2 ports, one would be for panoptix, one would be to link to one of the console graphs, but then the second console graph doesn't have anything to connect to.

 

That could work though, the console graph that I use for mapping is the only one I would need to link to the bow.  Unless there is some pressing reason to use the transom transducer while I am at the bow.

 

I don't know, I don't have any real world experience with a multi screen/multi transducer setup.  How to you guys utilize the different capabilities of the bow graph?  What are desirable features of the bow graph?

[jaimeastin]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 9:33 PM, TheRodFather said:

 

Yeah now that you say that, I think you are right.  The ultra has 2 ports, one would be for panoptix, one would be to link to one of the console graphs, but then the second console graph doesn't have anything to connect to.

 

That could work though, the console graph that I use for mapping is the only one I would need to link to the bow.  Unless there is some pressing reason to use the transom transducer while I am at the bow.

 

I don't know, I don't have any real world experience with a multi screen/multi transducer setup.  How to you guys utilize the different capabilities of the bow graph?  What are desirable features of the bow graph?

@TheRodFather
 

Your question and this forum topic led me to make a video discussing the Garmin Livescope Setup and Networking.  I talk about what I have, the differences in the models, how I have it networked, networking for less than $30, and more.

I am NOT trying to promote my channel at all...  I talked to Glenn a while back about my methods and I promote BR in all videos.  I just found it easier to make a video, that WENT WAAY too long, but I hope it helps.  It was too dark to show my boat networking, but I can if needed.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PlXTKQtmwA

 

[TheRodFather]

Thank you Jamie, lots of great information in your video, I appreciate the time you put into it.  So I think I have a game plan going forward, I would like to get another Plus unit and mount that on the bow for now.  

 

My current 73sv plus on the console, and the plus I am about to buy for the bow, can be networked (share waypoints and look at transducer of choice) with a crossover wired cat5 cable, is that correct?

 

I already have the tools to make my own cable/terminations, I will probably end up getting the garmin waterproof terminals though.

 

Down the road, if I add an ultra unit and panoptix to the bow ($2000 plus $500) and put the second plus back at console, or if just adding panoptix to my two plus units $1500, I will ditch the crossover cable, and do standard cat5 cables from each unit to the diy network hub, correct?

 

Thanks again for the help!