Daiwa Magforce MA10G baitcaster handle spins while casting

[wasabi_VA]

I took my Daiwa Magforce MA10G baitcaster fishing after letting it sit a few years. It otherwise works great but the handle spins with the spool when I cast. I believe this extra mass then slows down the spool and it isn’t casting very far. 

 

The handle does not spin while letting a bait slowly drop from the tip, just when casting. The drag and spool control all seem working fine. Any suggestions on how to resolve this?

 

[Deleted account]

My first salt water reel was a Penn 77, still have the scars on the knuckles from it. Normally what you describe would be the ARB, but I think that reel might have a dog pawl AR. In either case it probably is caused by caked up lube, and a good cleaning should do the trick. Of course it could also be a part. The "handle doesn't spin when letting out a lure" sounds a bit weird though.

[wasabi_VA]

The "handle doesn't spin when letting out a lure" just means when I let it freespool. The lure will drop and the handle doesn’t turn (as it shouldn’t). But if I whip out a cast the handle spins as if the something inside is engaging it. 

[Tim Kelly]

Does it re-engage the gears and stop the spool or just spin through it's own momentum? If it spins mechanically then the gearbox can't be disengaging fully from the spool when the thumb bar is pressed, so look at the pinion gear, yoke and the pin in the spool to see if they separate properly. Then look at the release arm for wear. No idea on the specific reel, but the general principal of how the reels work is similar, so you've just got to work through it until you find the problem.

[wasabi_VA]

it seems to just spin through it's own momentum. If I hold the rod in front of me and disengage the spool, the lure drops and the handle does not turn. It's just when casting does the handle seem to develop some rotting momentum.

 

And it only does it if I hold the reel off of a perfect horizontal hold. Normally when I cast my wrist rotates and the reel ends up being rotated a bit. But if I hold it perfectly horizontal then it doesn't do it. I find holding it perfectly horizontal really hard when actually fishing.

[Deleted account]

8 hours ago, wasabi_VA said:

The "handle doesn't spin when letting out a lure" just means when I let it freespool. The lure will drop and the handle doesn’t turn (as it shouldn’t). But if I whip out a cast the handle spins as if the something inside is engaging it. 

To clarify, is the handle spinning forwards, or backwards?

[wasabi_VA]

forward. At times it just feels like the casting rotational momentum is causing it to spin, but that theory doesn't seem to hold when I cast it perfectly horizontal (no spin).

 

it didn't used to do this

[diehardbassfishing]

Can only think of the mechanics involved in a general sense without having the reel in hand. Sounds like in free spool mode, the levers and yoke are not going fully into place. A dry grease problem?

 

When in free spool mode, you feel a certain amount of resistance when trying to turn the handle to get the spool to engage. I'm wondering what this handle feels like when turning it to re-engage the spool. It sounds like at least often when turning the handle, the spool does not engage. Or at least feels "FISHY" (couldn't resist). Not solid re-engagement.

 

Karl

[MassYak85]

Can you spin the handle backwards at all (when casting or when just holding the reel), and do you hear any noise (could be gears grinding, loose parts inside the reel)? I've never used the reel but what you describe seems very odd unless multiple things are not working correctly (or it's designed very differently from reels I've used). Even if the spool was still engaging with the pinion gear for some reason the rotation when casting should cause the handle to spin backwards not forwards, and backwards rotation of the handle/drive shaft should not be possible unless the reel's anti-reverse system is messed up. Also does the handle rotate in snyc with the spool (like the pinion gear is still meshed into the spool pin) or is it more sporadic?

[wasabi_VA]

I'm sorry - I was wrong about the direction it spins. I just cast with it and the handle does spin backwards when I cast. So weird.

 

Other than the handle spinning backwards when casting everything else feels right. The lever to disengage the reel for a cast feels good and it engages clean when I start to turn the handle. It feels good turning the handle - doesn't feel gummed up anywhere. I'll open it up and clean/grease it but was hoping to identify something specific to look for that could be causing this before I open it up.

[diehardbassfishing]

This reel has anti-reverse pawl & ratchet system, not ant-reverse bearing. (found the schematic).

From what we're hearing on the symptom(s), doesn't it seem like the handle would turn backwards by hand? Casting or retrieve mode.

 

Karl

[Deleted account]

9 minutes ago, diehardbassfishing said:

This reel has anti-reverse pawl & ratchet system, not ant-reverse bearing. (found the schematic).

From what we're hearing on the symptom(s), doesn't it seem like the handle would turn backwards by hand? Casting or retrieve mode.

 

Karl

No, a pawl anti reverse would just have a tad of play based on the size of the teeth on the mechanism. If the handle is indeed spinning backwards, then most likely, either it's gummed up, the spring has failed, or the pawl and or teeth have worn out.

[diehardbassfishing]

Correct. The anti-reverse pawl system is messed up somehow. Just sorta waiting for some feedback on if indeed the handle spins backwards all the time.

 

Karl

[WRB]

If the reel sat 2 years without being taken apart when it worked correctly, it needs to be cleaned to remove all the old grease. Check the anti reverse spring the engages the gear, it may have come. The handle shoukd rotate backwards more then 1/8th turn.

Tom

[wasabi_VA]

Ok. First,  thanks for all the help for  me trying to keep this old real going.  This afternoon I disassembled, cleaned, greased and or oiled inspected and put it all back together.     Nothing stood out to me as being a problem end it went back together just as I took it apart. 

 

 I went outside to test it and the first few casts were OK, but it doesn’t do it with every single cast.  But it is clearly still doing it, usually on casts I am putting a little bit more oomph behind it.  The handle will spin backwards.  I can never make it spin backwards by hand even on cast where it spins quickly in reverse on its own.  When it spins backwards on its own I still cannot turn the handle backwards myself. I assume there is some slop or weak spring causing this. I doubt I can find a replacement spring but would try to find one if that schematic can be shared with me.

[Tim Kelly]

I would guess it's something to do with the anti reverse pawl, That must not be engaging properly when the reel's in free spool. You need to try to look and see if something is moving when the clutch is depressed that takes the AR mechanism out of line.

[wasabi_VA]

Took this reel apart for the 2nd time, cleaning up any grease I may have missed the first time and further inspecting the operation of every moving part. Dangit, everything looks good, none of the grease was gummed up, nothing looks worn.

 

Tonight I focused on that anti-reverse pawl (#22). It's not worn, the anti-reverse ratchet (#40) is not worn and all looks good. Everything is engaging/disengaging as it should. All the parts are there as I compared it to the diagram during reassembly to ensure nothing was missing. Once back together it functions smoothly, engages/disengages fine, but the handle will still spin backwards if I give it a nice solid cast (won't do it on light casts).

 

If you understand how that anti-reverse pawl grabs the anti-reverse ratchet then it seems to defy the laws of physics that the handle can ever spin backwards. I can't ever get it to spin backwards by hand, just with a solid cast.

 

I'm sitting here thinking "how can this be???" The anti-reverse pawl in this reel has a thin brass(?) jacket around it exactly like this one. At the top are "ears" that fit around the ratchet to hold the pawl dog centered over the ratchet teeth. I am wondering if the ears have spread thereby allowing the dog to slide aside and the handle then allowed to spin backwards? I did not think of this while I had it open and am not going back in tonight. But this is the only thing I can think of...something is allowing that pawl dog to come off the ratchet momentarily. Oddly this model does not use a pawl spring and I looked at it closely and think the shape of the case prevents it from moving out of position. But possibly loose "ears" allow it some side to side play... gawd I hope that is it.

 

[wasabi_VA]

yessir, that was it! No more backward spinning handle. Tried to put it to the test today but the fish weren't biting

 

[Tim Kelly]

Well done! Satisfying when you work it out isn't it!