rod overload

[jimmyjoe]

  I notice Duckett rods don't have weight recommendations. There's a guy on fleabay who takes broken St. Croix rods and makes 1 out of 2. He avoids weight recommendations, too. So how does a fisherman know when he has overloaded the rod? I guess it's easier to tell with fast actions, but what about moderate fast and moderate actions? Some custom rod builders talk about "stress testing" the blank. Is that what it takes to tell? And what does that involve? I find it hard to believe that everyone with a Duckett rod does a stress test. I used to use a bow, so I understand stacking. But I always thought that when you got to the point that a rod stacked, you had already gone too far. Is that right or wrong?  I might like to get a rod from this guy that makes one out of two, but I'm interested in another crankbait rod, a moderate. And as always, I like to favor the upper end of the weight limit to get maximum distance and blank preload, so I get better sensitivity and quicker hookset. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I figure there's got to be an easy answer to this that I'm just not seeing.  THNX.   jj

[fishballer06]

There's no way to truly say unless you have actually used a road with a bait that is too much for that said rods power. If you want to experience it yourself, I would recommend taking one of your medium powered rods and tying on 1.5-2oz worth of weight onto the end of your line (this may require tying on multiple baits if you don't have a single bait that heavy). Once you do that, wind up like you're about to make a cast. You'll easily be able to tell that the rod is overstressed and that it could likely break after a few repeated casts.

 

As for buying garage job refurbished broken rods... That sounds like something that I would avoid at all costs.

[jimmyjoe]

5 hours ago, fishballer06 said:

I would recommend taking one of your medium powered rods and tying on 1.5-2oz worth of weight onto the end of your line (this may require tying on multiple baits if you don't have a single bait that heavy). Once you do that, wind up like you're about to make a cast.

   Yeah, I suppose that would pretty well do it!  That reminds me of 2 truckers I heard talking at a truck stop years ago. It was the middle of winter, and one was telling the other to put a little gasoline in the tank to improve how well the diesel ran. The other one asked, "Well, how much do you add?" the first one said, "Start at a cup, and if that doesn't do what you want, add a little more." The second one wanted to know how he could tell that he had put too much gas in the diesel. The first one said, "Don't worry. You'll know."  ??   As for the guy on fleabay, he goes by the moniker "The Rodfather". I know; funny, funny. But a few years ago I got a couple 2-pc rods from him, and they've been excellent. They were spinning, though. Now I'm looking for casting. Finding a good 7-ft. plus 2-pc medium/moderate casting rod is almost impossible. I can get 1-pc rods anywhere. When I go traveling, I need something that I can put in my trunk. That's why I'm interested in this guy.     But that is taking us away from the basic question: How do you tell when you're overloading a rod, preferably without breaking it? With that basic knowledge, I can sift through any rod display, anywhere, any brand.  Handy to know.  I just figured that the Duckett rods presented their owners with that problem right away, and that some of them had probably come up with a quick-n'-easy way how to tell the right weights. After all, I'd think the answer would be different for a fisherman casting easy and one really stepping into the cast and pushing the distance.  jj

[MickD]

How does one know he's overloading a rod.  A. It breaks.  B.  If you're talking about casting, it will feel sort of soft, the lure won't start forward right away, but will lag.  You will notice it flexing way back toward the grip, especially with moderate action rods.  C. If you're talking about lifting or setting the hook, then don't flex the rod more than 90 degrees.  If you're going farther than 90 degrees, you are going too far and inviting failure with modern graphite materials. 

 

What is stress testing? It is only a method  that builders use for locating guides on the blank, nothing more.  The blank is flexed and the line through the guides observed, then position adjusted depending on how the line is going through the guides.

 

I don't know what "stacked" means.

 

Making one rod out of two sounds like an expensive way to get a sub-par rod.  Blanks and rods come in a myriad of actions and powers, all DESIGNED for specific functions.  A rod made from two will be an approximation based on blank diameters and not on action or power.  If you get something good, fine, but I submit that will be an lucky accident.  Buying a specific blank or rod is much less of a crap shoot, and probably will be less fragile.

 

[jimmyjoe]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

Buying a specific blank or rod is much less of a crap shoot, and probably will be less fragile.

   I was afraid that was the case. The fragility, I mean. Probably more obvious in a casting rod than a spinning rod.  ? 

   Stacking, by the way, is the point at which the limbs of a bow suddenly lose flexibility (and the ability to store energy evenly) and increase their resistance at a sudden and extreme rate. No more flex, and breakage can be imminent. Same terminology applies to any limb (blank) that stores energy arithmetically and then releases it the same way. So stacking affects both the back cast and the forward cast.  Please don't ask me how I know that this applies to fishing rods. The part about breakage being imminent, that is.   ???      jj

[MickD]

Thanks on stacking.  I don't know that rod blanks act the same way, with a sudden and and extreme buildup of resistance to bending farther.  It has been my understanding that it is simply that at some point they simply fail. 

 

I have seen it in a number of writings on "high sticking" of blanks, which is bending them beyond 90 degrees, that the blanks are not in fact applying more force to the line when bending beyond 90 degrees.   If flexing the blank to 90 degrees and continuing to apply force, I think they don't experience "stacking," but just fail at some point.

 

The geometry of a rod blank is not the same or even similar to a bow's limbs so if they acted differently, it wouldn't surprise me.

[WRB]

Breaking rod casting a lure is so rare I don't think it happens with standard bass rods and lures unless someone is dumb enough to try a 6 oz swimbait of a ML/2 power bass rod. What over stresses rods isn't lure weight it's over bending the rod trying to lift or apply more dead weight or force then the rod can lift.

A fish weight in the water is about 1/3rd of it's dead weight in the air when you try to lift it using the rod. What a skilled angler will do is use the fish forward momentum to launch the fish, like assisting a jump, into the boat. Most standard bass rods can lift the following before bottoming out; depending on the rod length and mfr,

ML/2 power =1- 2 lbs.

M/3 power =2- 3 lbs

MH/4 power =3- 4 lbs 

H/5 power = 4-5 lbs

If you set your drag at the max lifting weight you reduce chances of breaking your rods.

Tom

[jimmyjoe]

   You guys are giving me a new outlook on rod function and durability. As for high sticking, I learned my lesson long ago. I don't do that. I'm starting to think that if I break a rod casting a lure that the rod was slightly damaged when I got it.  jj

[MickD]

Another common way of breaking a rod is to put your hand out the blank a ways and then lift something.  The file below is very good for defining the proper and improper treatment of rods.  i give a copy to everyone I build a rod for.  With modern hi modulus graphite, rods are more fragile than they used to be.  

 

https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/rodusage.pdf

[Russ E]

3 hours ago, MickD said:

Another common way of breaking a rod is to put your hand out the blank a ways and then lift something.  The file below is very good for defining the proper and improper treatment of rods.  i give a copy to everyone I build a rod for.  With modern hi modulus graphite, rods are more fragile than they used to be.  

 

https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/rodusage.pdf

I did this to a Dobyns champion, trying to hoist a 4 lb bass into the boat. Snapped the last 6 inches of the rod. Expensive mistake.

 

My favorite way to break an expensive rod is to leave it hanging out of the boat when you pull up to a dock. Works every time. I only do this to $300.00 + rods. never broke a cheap rod.  But that is for another thread.

[MickD]

Another good way is to let the rod hang over the back of the boat a little so that when the engine is turned it snaps the end off the rod.  This works equally well for both cheap and expensive rods.

 

A way not yet mentioned is to allow rods to be uncontrolled on the deck within a few inches of a vertical surface to the rear of them.  The tip might be pushed against that surface due to rough water, and break the tip.  I think hi mod graphite is more susceptible to this than low mod or glass.  But I know it sometimes works just fine.

[jimmyjoe]

17 hours ago, Russ E said:

I did this to a Dobyns champion, trying to hoist a 4 lb bass into the boat. Snapped the last 6 inches of the rod. Expensive mistake.

 

My favorite way to break an expensive rod is to leave it hanging out of the boat when you pull up to a dock. Works every time. I only do this to $300.00 + rods. never broke a cheap rod.  But that is for another thread.

 

4 hours ago, MickD said:

Another good way is to let the rod hang over the back of the boat a little so that when the engine is turned it snaps the end off the rod.  This works equally well for both cheap and expensive rods.

 

A way not yet mentioned is to allow rods to be uncontrolled on the deck within a few inches of a vertical surface to the rear of them.  The tip might be pushed against that surface due to rough water, and break the tip.  I think hi mod graphite is more susceptible to this than low mod or glass.  But I know it sometimes works just fine.

 

 

   Y'know, you guys are starting to make me feel better already. A LOT better!  ?   jj

[diehardbassfishing]

You can tell if a lure is too much for the rod when it's just hanging at the end of the tip. Maybe bounce it a bit for "extra measure". If the tip of the rod looks a bit over stressed in its bend with a static hold - lure is too heavy. A proper weight lure for a rod doesn't load the tip much at all; until you cast of course!

 

Now, you can cast a lure that is heavy (even very heavy) for a rod with little worry of breakage by just "lobbing" it. You don't load the rod much with a lob cast. Just enough to slowly swing the lure in the right direction and let her fly. It works.