Why Couldn't I Land This Topwater Bass?

[TotalNoob]

Hi guys, hoping you can help me understand what happened on a topwater bass I had on yesterday but couldn't land. 

 

I'd like to know what I did wrong or what I could have done better to increase my chances of landing these fish. I have a ~90 second clip with slowed down footage from an action cam that will hopefully be helpful with feedback. 

 

Details: I had noticed some random surface activity. We have gizzard shad here. I threw on a white buzzbait but nothing. So I threw on a whopper plopper in Monkey butt color (I feel like the spinning prop in this color is kind of flashy and might imitate a small school of shad on the surface). 

 

After a few casts of nothing, I decided to slow this retrieve down. I was basically just practicing/experimenting at this point. I let it sit on the surface for about 30 seconds before beginning the retrieve. The vid picks up right on the retrieve as I begin to pick up the slack. 

 

I started to pop it like a popper .. giving it a couple quick twitches like a jerkbait then pause. The first two pops occurred with the rod tip up, then I dropped the rod tip for the next couple sets of twitches, literally just practicing jerkbait-type twitches on a baitcaster. You can see in the vid what I was doing. Whatever it was it finally prompted a hit. 

 

I don't know if my hookset was bad (too fast? sweeped to the side instead of up? my rod tip was pointing down like a jerkbait so I had to go side) or if I was reeling too quickly? ... drag too loose or tight? 

 

Whatever the reason I definitely felt like I had him on there (for however brief a time) and that he was coming in. I didn't feel any slack in the line. It all happened so quickly and I couldn't believe he was suddenly just gone. He wasn't big but I want to understand what I did wrong or could have done better for next time. 

 

The equipment is a 7' BPS pro qualifier 2 combo I picked up last weekend on sale or clearance for $113. They only had left retrieve remaining but I was fine with that. I'm trying to acclimate myself to baitcasters so I'm fully comfortable with them.  It's a 7' MH/F and reel is 7.5:1 ratio. I spooled on 110 yards of Stren lo-vis green Mono. I tied on a barrel swivel and attached a crosslock snap to the other end. Mono is supposed to help with the hooksets on treble hooks as I understand. I primarily use fluoro (for sensitivity with bottom contact and jerkbaits) but spooled this up with mono for fast moving baits with treble hooks. 

 

Btw I had caught a smallmouth on this same point about 20 min earlier dragging a creature bait on the bottom (different rod). Bass in this reservoir are populated by mostly smallys, then spotted, then largemouths. I think there are so few largemouths (in part at least) because this is a major walleye egg-take reservoir for the state and I read somewhere that largemouth bass adversely affect walleye populations. Point is, my gut tells me this was likely a smallmouth but I obviously can't be 100% sure. 

 

I used some basic windows software to slow the vid down at a couple points. The angle isn't the best but it isn't the worst. You can tell on the slow mo where the rod clearly loads and unloads. He comes partly out of the water and the plopper appears to "land" several feet from there (as seen). Was he able to spit the hook when he surfaced? If so, what could have been done on my end to increase my chances of bringing this fish in (equipment, hookset, drag, began reeling too quickly, etc)? 

 

Anyway, I hope there's enough decent/slowed down footage to get some feedback. Thought's on why couldn't this Bass couldn't be brought in and tips going forward? Any/all feedback much appreciated. 

 

 

[Deleted account]

First, let me say that some fish are going to get off no matter what, and others are going to stay on no matter what. so your fish may belong in the first category.  It's those other times where angler input and little things can make a difference. The two things that stand out to me are too fast a rod, and failure to reduce pressure when fish breaks water. The hook set (assuming sharp hooks) looks ok to me, others may disagree. 

[J.Vincent]

A medium heavy fast is not the type of Rod I would use on a Topwater with a treble hook. I think it's equivalent to using a 1 Wood when you are 60 yards from the green. In other words it's the wrong tool for the job. Also, turning the reel handle like Flash Gordon after a trip to Starbucks, probably didn't help : ) Try again with a Moderate Fast action or Moderate action fishing rod rated for the weight of the Ploppers you are throwing, set the drag moderately and give the fish more time in the open water. 

[TotalNoob]

Hooks definitely sharp, that was first fish on that plopper ... and first fish on that rod. 

 

I didn't even think about reducing pressure. Now that I think about it (prompted by your mentioning it) I couldn't feel the bass ascending in the water. That surface break was as much of a surprise to me as the fact he was there one minute and the next gone. 

 

I mention this because a good chunk of my bass fishing is done finesse on texas rigged plastics (1/O offset hooks mostly). Using the same rod, in fact, but on a spinning set up. Nice clean hooksets, I can "feel" their movement laterally and vertically in the water column. I can feel when they're ascending and going to break the water. With this bass on the plopper the only thing I felt was the strike, the load on the rod, and then the sudden lack of load on the rod. 

 

Because I was kind of twitching it and pausing there was some slack in the mono when he hit it, which is why I swept hard and fast to the left. Thinking back now, I remember in that moment worrying about the slack - but then it seemed like I had him on. 

[Ratherbfishing]

As REASON already said, sometimes it "just happens" so there's that.  But yeah, as J. Vincent said, your rod might be a bit stiff.

 

I wouldn't fret it much unless it occurs a LOT.

[NHBull]

With the WP, the hit happens for fast that it is hard to distinguish between a slap and a bite and that is why you have to feel pressure before you set. It is hard because the adrenaline is pumping. I soften my drag and use a CB or Topwater rod.

last night I got a hit on the WP as it hit the water and I missed. The next came on the retrieve and was landed. That is usually the case with me. On a side note, try to prevent the jump, which can be difficult on a long cast, but anticipate it when close to the boat. It’s a big bait and has a lot of swing weight

[TotalNoob]

18 minutes ago, J.Vincent said:

A medium heavy fast is not the type of Rod I would use on a Topwater with a treble hook. I think it's equivalent to using a 1 Wood when you are 60 yards from the green. In other words it's the wrong tool for the job. Also, turning the reel handle like Flash Gordon after a trip to Starbucks, probably didn't help : ) Try again with a Moderate Fast action or Moderate action fishing rod rated for the weight of the Ploppers you are throwing, set the drag moderately and give the fish more time in the open water. 

Haha, yea, that 7.5:1 gear ratio is nothing like the 5.2:1 on my spinning pflueger reel that I'm most accustomed to using.

 

I bought this set up as an all-purpose baitcasting set up and to help me get more accustomed to using baitcasters. I intend to purchase a (yet unknown) baitcasting rod for throwing jerkbaits in the spring and fall because I've found they work very well in this fishery. Whatever dedicated jerkbait rod I get will definitely be less than 7'. 

 

Anyway, seems then like I was way over-horsing this fish in on equipment designed for a Wiper or much larger Bass. 

[TotalNoob]

 

35 minutes ago, Ratherbfishing said:

As REASON already said, sometimes it "just happens" so there's that.  But yeah, as J. Vincent said, your rod might be a bit stiff.

 

I wouldn't fret it much unless it occurs a LOT.

 

26 minutes ago, NHBull said:

With the WP, the hit happens for fast that it is hard to distinguish between a slap and a bite and that is why you have to feel pressure before you set. It is hard because the adrenaline is pumping. I soften my drag and use a CB or Topwater rod.

last night I got a hit on the WP as it hit the water and I missed. The next came on the retrieve and was landed. That is usually the case with me. On a side note, try to prevent the jump, which can be difficult on a long cast, but anticipate it when close to the boat. It’s a big bait and has a lot of swing weight

Let's hypothetically say you HAD to use this set up for topwater. It's known that it's not ideal or recommended, but it is what you have for now and you HAVE to use it for that application. 

 

What kinds of modifications would you make to your presentation, hookset, drag, and retrieval of hooked fish ... for the purpose of trying to increase landed fish with this non-ideal set up? 

 

Also, is it possible that I couldn't feel what this fish was doing under the surface (he was ascending and I couldn't feel it) because I was bringing him in too quickly? It does worry me when I realize that I couldn't FEEL the fish like I typically can. 

[NHBull]

26 minutes ago, TotalNoob said:

 

 

Let's hypothetically say you HAD to use this set up for topwater. It's known that it's not ideal or recommended, but it is what you have for now and you HAVE to use it for that application. 

 

What kinds of modifications would you make to your presentation, hookset, drag, and retrieval of hooked fish ... for the purpose of trying to increase landed fish with this non-ideal set up? 

 

Also, is it possible that I couldn't feel what this fish was doing under the surface (he was ascending and I couldn't feel it) because I was bringing him in too quickly? It does worry me when I realize that I couldn't FEEL the fish like I typically can. 

First thing I would do is change the stock hooks....I think I have 41’s but would have to check.

I would consider a quality mono.

If you can’t feel the fish under water, crank like hell cause it’s coming your way and slack is your enemy ......and a quick prayer never hurts ?

[Deleted account]

31 minutes ago, TotalNoob said:

 

 

Let's hypothetically say you HAD to use this set up for topwater. It's known that it's not ideal or recommended, but it is what you have for now and you HAVE to use it for that application. 

 

What kinds of modifications would you make to your presentation, hookset, drag, and retrieval of hooked fish ... for the purpose of trying to increase landed fish with this non-ideal set up? 

 

Also, is it possible that I couldn't feel what this fish was doing under the surface (he was ascending and I couldn't feel it) because I was bringing him in too quickly? It does worry me when I realize that I couldn't FEEL the fish like I typically can. 

I would practice loading the rod lower down the blank while fighting a fish and reeling without the rod oscillating. I find pressing my forearm to the side of my chest, and making angle changes with the wrist helps, but at this point, it's all automatic, I don't really think about it. 

[PAbasser927]

41 minutes ago, TotalNoob said:

 

 

Let's hypothetically say you HAD to use this set up for topwater. It's known that it's not ideal or recommended, but it is what you have for now and you HAVE to use it for that application. 

 

What kinds of modifications would you make to your presentation, hookset, drag, and retrieval of hooked fish ... for the purpose of trying to increase landed fish with this non-ideal set up? 

 

Also, is it possible that I couldn't feel what this fish was doing under the surface (he was ascending and I couldn't feel it) because I was bringing him in too quickly? It does worry me when I realize that I couldn't FEEL the fish like I typically can. 

I actually fish fish whopper plopper 110’s and 130’s on a heavy power ex fast action rod with 50lb braid.  I started doing it because I didn’t have anything else better to throw it on (other rods too light or strung with line that doesn’t float), but I have yet to lose a fish so I haven’t had a reason to change - I’m sure I’ll lose the next one now that I say that.

 

When I get a bite I wait to feel the weight on the end of the line and give swift sweep to the side for a hookset.  From there I keep the rod tip very close to the water and horse them in as fast as possible on very tight drag.  With this setup there is no “playing” the fish on a bait with trebles.  If I feel the bass ascending I will stick the rod tip in the water as far as I can in order to keep it from jumping.  Have your net ready or lip it as fast as possible.

 

This has been working great for me.  Though I do fish the 90 on a lighter more moderate rod because the hooks are not nearly as stout as the 110’s and up.

[WRB]

Looking at the vedio it appears to me you never sweep the rod back firmly, just reeled and the bass never got the lure in it's mouth firmly. Timing is everything with top water lures and your was off. Rod/reel/line combo should be OK, slower action helps to slow down the hook automatically but it's not that critical if you slow down your reflex time.

Tom

[Koz]

You did not mention what size Whopper Plopper you are using, but I'll relay my experience with them fishing mostly the 110 size and sometimes the 130 size.

 

What I have found is that many, many times that bass will hit and run the lure. In other words, instead of opening wide and inhaling the lure when they hit it they hit it right at the surface and then roll over and down. With the glancing blow there are many times when they get hooked on the outside of their mouth or in the gill area.

 

When they get hooked on the outside it seems to make it much easier to shake the hook off.

 

While I can't be sure this happened in your case, I've landed my fair share of Whopper Plopper bass hooked on the outside of their mouth or hooked on a gill.

[TotalNoob]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

Looking at the vedio it appears to me you never sweep the rod back firmly, just reeled and the bass never got the lure in it's mouth firmly. Timing is everything with top water lures and your was off. Rod/reel/line combo should be OK, slower action helps to slow down the hook automatically but it's not that critical if you slow down your reflex time.

Tom

Yea, I am unsure about the hookset myself. In case it wasn't clear (my OP was long, apologies) this was my first time using this baitcast setup, though not my first time using baitcasters. I am trying to get 100% comfortable with them, so I'm still in that transition phase. 

 

Anyway, prior to the strike I had been working topwater for 10-15 min since noticing the surface activity. Quick or moderate speed retrievals yielded nothing (as they typically do not in this mostly Smallmouth reservoir). On this cast, I had already decided I was just going to practice with this rod .. practice different twitches while getting used to holding a baitcast reel instead of spinning. I knew the potential for a strike was there but I was honestly not expecting it. 

 

When he struck, I had a little more slack in my line than I would have liked I think (tough to tell when transitioning from a 5.2 to 7.5 gear ratio). This was not a typical moving topwater strike; that is, I was basically popping and twitching it. It wasn't blasted while being burned through the water (I wish).

 

In that sense, it was a lot more like a jerkbait strike which I use fluoro for, not mono. The stretch of the mono may have cost me this one since it was hit on a pause, but idk - there are a lot of variables. My torso immediately pivoted 90° to the left on the hookset while simultaneously burning the reel. 

[TotalNoob]

55 minutes ago, Koz said:

You did not mention what size Whopper Plopper you are using, but I'll relay my experience with them fishing mostly the 110 size and sometimes the 130 size.

 

What I have found is that many, many times that bass will hit and run the lure. In other words, instead of opening wide and inhaling the lure when they hit it they hit it right at the surface and then roll over and down. With the glancing blow there are many times when they get hooked on the outside of their mouth or in the gill area.

 

When they get hooked on the outside it seems to make it much easier to shake the hook off.

 

While I can't be sure this happened in your case, I've landed my fair share of Whopper Plopper bass hooked on the outside of their mouth or hooked on a gill.

It was a Whopper Plopper 90. I bought 90s "on accident" but it turns out that was probably for the best as Smallmouth Bass are easily the dominant Bass species in this res. We have all three, though, and last summer I did catch two largemouths on a chartreuse buzzbait. I must've made 200 buzzbait casts for those 2 Largys though. 

 

You're "glancing blow" description is spot on in my minimal topwater experience. I caught a few Smallys last Fall on small poppers essentially gill-hooked. 

 

What's the significance of the WP size and hook sizes? Someone else mentioned upgrading the hooks (to larger, I assume). Would that be reasonable in a mostly smallmouth/spotted fishery? What modifications (if any) would be reasonable given the type Bass I'm likely to catch? Btw we have Wiper in this Res but their mouths aren't large. I've only caught them on jerkbaits in the Spring. My dream would be a huge Wiper on topwater if I'm being honest. 

[WRB]

18 minutes ago, TotalNoob said:

Yea, I am unsure about the hookset myself. In case it wasn't clear (my OP was long, apologies) this was my first time using this baitcast setup, though not my first time using baitcasters. I am trying to get 100% comfortable with them, so I'm still in that transition phase. 

 

Anyway, prior to the strike I had been working topwater for 10-15 min since noticing the surface activity. Quick or moderate speed retrievals yielded nothing (as they typically do not in this mostly Smallmouth reservoir). On this cast, I had already decided I was just going to practice with this rod .. practice different twitches while getting used to holding a baitcast reel instead of spinning. I knew the potential for a strike was there but I was honestly not expecting it. 

 

When he struck, I had a little more slack in my line than I would have liked I think (tough to tell when transitioning from a 5.2 to 7.5 gear ratio). This was not a typical moving topwater strike; that is, I was basically popping and twitching it. It wasn't blasted while being burned through the water (I wish).

 

In that sense, it was a lot more like a jerkbait strike which I use fluoro for, not mono. The stretch of the mono may have cost me this one since it was hit on a pause, but idk - there are a lot of variables. My torso immediately pivoted 90° to the left on the hookset while simultaneously burning the reel. 

FC and mono "stretch" the same % under the same load, what most anglers think is stretch isn't. Mono actually helps with top water lures as it stays on top of the when the line is slack. Jerk baits you don't always see the strike and when you jerk it sets the hook.

Keep fishing and the timing issue will settles itself if you wait to feel the fish instead reacting to the splash.

Tom

[Fairtax4me]

Looks like you're holding the rod pointing towards your lure. With most topwater lures I find it easier to point the rod anywhere from 45°-90° Away from the lure. The next part takes patience and practice, but it comes easily once you get used to it. When a fish strikes the lure, you then move the rod TOWARD the fish and WATCH your line! When the line starts pulling away, then reverse and set your hook. (Back in the original direction) 

 

Always with topwater lures do a sweeping set to the side and keep your rod tip LOW if possible. Setting the hook UP can often lead to a set of sharp hooks flying at your face. Heavier lures like a plopper 130 can give you one serious headache, or worse. 

[Koz]

2 hours ago, TotalNoob said:

What's the significance of the WP size and hook sizes?

 

My Whopper Ploppers still have the original hooks. While there is probably a nominal difference in upgrading the hooks, I find the originals work well enough for me.

 

I haven't used the WP 90 that much because I have a lot of floating vegetation in the lagoons I fish. Using the 90 was frustrating because any little bit of vegetation would mess it up. And because I bank fish, using the 110's allows me to cast further and cover more water.

 

I don't recall any gill or outer hookups with the 90, but I do call a decent number of whiffs when a bass would try to hit it. The reason I did not get the side hookups on the 90 may have to do with the relative size of the bass we get down here. The average bass we catch here is about 2 pounds. The lighter mass and the smaller hooks may not have been enough to penetrate that sized bass. Or maybe the original hooks on the 90 aren't that good, and that's why others suggest replacing them.

[EGbassing]

I don't have much experience with topwater, but I can assure you that it just happens sometiems even if you do everything right. Even KVD loses fish. 

[islandbass]

It looks to me that although your rod is bent, it didn’t seem that it got to the meat or backbone of your rod to drive the treble home. 

 

If not, that’s the thing with top water too. You miss and they miss too.

 

 

[frogflogger]

Treble hooks

I prefer a rod with "give" or soft tip - helps keep them buttoned but treble hooks and topwater are going to lose a few fish.

[scaleface]

You forgot to set the hook .

[WRB]

9 hours ago, frogflogger said:

Treble hooks

I prefer a rod with "give" or soft tip - helps keep them buttoned but treble hooks and topwater are going to lose a few fish.

Just to set the record straight moderate action rods are easier to cast they don't necessarily help in hook setting treble hooks at a distance, they do help reduce treble hook tear out near the boat or bank and slow reaction time slightly. The MHF actually applies more hook setting force at a casting distance and isn't a disadvantage hook setting. The rod had nothing to do with not setting the hook IMO.

Tom

[Bluebasser86]

I fish a 90 size plopper on a 7' M/F with 20lb braid and 7.3:1 reel and don't lose many of them. A lot of my bites are at long distance, but with the braid I don't even have to set the hook, I just reel faster until the load the rod and sweep into them, also prevents me from pulling the bait away the fish. I also switch to a short shank EWG hook that helps to keep them pinned. 

 

To me, that rod you're using do not look nearly as stout as what I'm used to seeing in a MH rod, especially if that was a small fish, but the way the rod flopped around after the fish was gone wasn't like a MH rod I'm use to unless it's a composite cranking rod or something. Some fish are just going to get off, but it looked to me like the flex in that rod, probable stretch in your line, and the soft hook set combined to help that fish get loose.