Fixing/replenishing a pond... (bass are tiny)

[Adleyfishes]

So I’ve known for awhile now that my own pond is terrible. I’ve tried some things and done research but never really found out what is conclusively the problem. My bass are all 12-14 inches tops. 16 inches is my pb for it and I fish the pond nearly everyday. The pond is a decently large quarry with long  flats or straight drop offs and very clear water. The bass are usually not aggressive what so ever. The pond also has some vegetation on the side but no water running in or out of it. I have one idea: the bass have reproduced so many times and were at one point stunted until people took fish out that the fish have the same small genetic makeup. I read that in an article about introducing new genes to help your body of water. Anyways I also have a couple solutions: Introduce normal large mouth to change the genes if that’s an issue, introduce a friends hybrid largies. (Gorilla Bass and Florida strain I believe) this would make a more aggressive bass that would consume more gills and grow more, lastly stock more prey fish in the form of “feeder” minnows. I might be a dreamer or making stuff up but I have no clue on what I’m doing I just want to figure this out and get your advice and intelligence. Any help is greatly appreciated!

[CroakHunter]

How big is the pond? My suggestion would be to start keeping and eating more bass from there. About 15 years ago We moved to the country and the neighbors had a 2 acre farm pond. It was full of small bass. I started keeping a good amount of bass a year and even after the first summer I could tell quality was getting better with nearly the same quanity. I'm another case, my friend owns a 65 acre pit that has great bass, crappie, and bluegill fishing. One year we noticed all the bass under 18" were getting paper thin. That fall we took out 500 crappie and over 100 bass and 200 bluegill. It sounds like a lot but really it was just a small dent. The pit had gotten over populated and was starting to stunt all the fish. In just a few years time we have noticed the quality in all 3 species listed jump up tremendously. My suggestion would be to keep some smaller fish and see if you notice a difference. 

[Sam]

Too many bass + not enough forage = small bass.

[N Florida Mike]

4 hours ago, CroakHunter said:

How big is the pond? My suggestion would be to start keeping and eating more bass from there. About 15 years ago We moved to the country and the neighbors had a 2 acre farm pond. It was full of small bass. I started keeping a good amount of bass a year and even after the first summer I could tell quality was getting better with nearly the same quanity. I'm another case, my friend owns a 65 acre pit that has great bass, crappie, and bluegill fishing. One year we noticed all the bass under 18" were getting paper thin. That fall we took out 500 crappie and over 100 bass and 200 bluegill. It sounds like a lot but really it was just a small dent. The pit had gotten over populated and was starting to stunt all the fish. In just a few years time we have noticed the quality in all 3 species listed jump up tremendously. My suggestion would be to keep some smaller fish and see if you notice a difference. 

^^^ this.

[Adleyfishes]

6 hours ago, CroakHunter said:

How big is the pond? My suggestion would be to start keeping and eating more bass from there. About 15 years ago We moved to the country and the neighbors had a 2 acre farm pond. It was full of small bass. I started keeping a good amount of bass a year and even after the first summer I could tell quality was getting better with nearly the same quanity. I'm another case, my friend owns a 65 acre pit that has great bass, crappie, and bluegill fishing. One year we noticed all the bass under 18" were getting paper thin. That fall we took out 500 crappie and over 100 bass and 200 bluegill. It sounds like a lot but really it was just a small dent. The pit had gotten over populated and was starting to stunt all the fish. In just a few years time we have noticed the quality in all 3 species listed jump up tremendously. My suggestion would be to keep some smaller fish and see if you notice a difference. 

The pond is about 5 acres and honestly the fish don’t seem to be overpopulated I spend just as much time catching them as any other pond and their chunky not skinny just they all don’t seem to grow in length. Could the blue gill population affect them?

[CroakHunter]

Maybe you're not targeting the areas where the big fish are. 

[Adleyfishes]

Also the pond has improved since we purchased our property. It used to be all the bass were around 10 inches then a neighbor stocked it with some feeder minnows.

 

3 minutes ago, CroakHunter said:

Maybe you're not targeting the areas where the big fish are. 

Doubt it I’ve fished it with other anglers and neighbors and we all just ended up scratching our heads. I had heard the fish used to be be giants and the gills and crappie still are. The gills are all about 9 inches.

[the reel ess]

You need to look up YouTube videos by Pond Boss. He has a PhD in biology, specializing in fisheries. I have a friend with a pond full of similarly stunted bass. His bass are small, his bluegill are too large for small bass to eat and they're competing for the same prey. We keep EVERYTHING we catch there and I've hardly caught a bass over 12" in 10 years there. Years ago, my PB came from there, but that's over now. The best balance would be to have a lot of smaller bluegill for the bass to supplement their diet of minnows. PB would recommend feeding your gills so they spawn more times in a summer. Apparently that happens when they're well-nourished.

 

Ideally, you and others could catch enough small bass to make a difference, but that's usually impossible with one person. You could pay someone to come shock up a lot of bass and and larger bream take them out of the food chain as predators. After that you might be able maintain the new balance. You could also introduce another food source that's too big for bream and not for bass, like threadfin shad. But I'd talk to someone in the know about that before you do it. Bass might just gobble them all up or they might die off if the pond gets too cold and they're stuck shallow. Maybe there are other types of forage you could stock.

 

I have another friend who has a pond with a concrete spillway (not a pipe) and during times of heavy rain, it overflows like crazy and every time that happens, his fish grow bigger for a while. For what that's worth.

42 minutes ago, CroakHunter said:

Maybe you're not targeting the areas where the big fish are. 

Honestly, he probably doesn't need to target the big bass, if there are any. They aren't the problem. He needs to target the big bream and the small bass. They're in direct competition.

[NittyGrittyBoy]

I'd keep it simple, start having some fish fries, keeping both large gills, crappie, and small bass, give it several months and see if you can notice a change. 

 

If not try introducing another strain of bass and see if that will help with genetics

 

[CroakHunter]

19 minutes ago, the reel ess said:

Honestly, he probably doesn't need to target the big bass, if there are any. They aren't the problem. He needs to target the big bream and the small bass. They're in direct competition.

Hard to catch big bass if you are targeting gills and small bass. 

[EGbassing]

On 6/1/2018 at 6:45 AM, Adleyfishes said:

The gills are all about 9 inches.

I'm not an expert on these things, but it sounds like the gills are just too big. 

[the reel ess]

2 hours ago, CroakHunter said:

Hard to catch big bass if you are targeting gills and small bass. 

Even harder if you have none. OP said there are 9" bluegills. That's enormous. You won't grow many, if any big bass if they're competing with 12" bass and 9" bluegill for only minnows. There probably aren't any big bass. Even if there are, your odds of catching one are quite slim if most of the population is under 12". They stay stunted. They might be 4 years old and only 12". Too many mouths to feed. You have to take lots of little bass and big bluegills out or the problem will persist forever. Eventually, the big bass will die out, leaving only stunted dinks. Persecute the babies.

 

My friend and I have discussed shocking up mass quantities of fish to remove some of the dinks in his pond. I watched YouTube videos of homemade shocking devices.I'd really like to give it a try.

 

https://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/lake-limits-fish.html

 

 

[the reel ess]

Limits in a big lake are maximums. Limits in a pond are minimums.

[Adleyfishes]

2 hours ago, the reel ess said:

Even harder if you have none. OP said there are 9" bluegills. That's enormous. You won't grow many, if any big bass if they're competing with 12" bass and 9" bluegill for only minnows. There probably aren't any big bass. Even if there are, your odds of catching one are quite slim if most of the population is under 12". They stay stunted. They might be 4 years old and only 12". Too many mouths to feed. You have to take lots of little bass and big bluegills out or the problem will persist forever. Eventually, the big bass will die out, leaving only stunted dinks. Persecute the babies.

 

My friend and I have discussed shocking up mass quantities of fish to remove some of the dinks in his pond. I watched YouTube videos of homemade shocking devices.I'd really like to give it a try.

 

https://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/lake-limits-fish.html

 

 

Lol I pulled out an 11 inch gill one time. Was about to see if I could send it in for master angler?

[mlee3553]

11 in gill is definitely a master angler sized fish.  I really don't think your bluegills are your problem.  They are the number one forage for your bass, if you aren't catching any small bluegills that maybe your problem.  In a quarry type pond there isn't always the greatest bluegill bedding habitat.  Do you see lots of bluegill beds in the shallow areas of your pond?  Also are there Crappie in it?  If so they will directly compete with the bass for food more so than a bluegill.  If you have the means start taking out some of the smaller bass and definitely crappie if they are present.  Channel catfish can also pose a bit of a problem as well.  You could also try stocking some golden shiners as forage, they likely won't last to long but depending on size when stalked wouldn't be eaten by bluegill and crappie, if they are big enough.

[Adleyfishes]

39 minutes ago, mlee3553 said:

11 in gill is definitely a master angler sized fish.  I really don't think your bluegills are your problem.  They are the number one forage for your bass, if you aren't catching any small bluegills that maybe your problem.  In a quarry type pond there isn't always the greatest bluegill bedding habitat.  Do you see lots of bluegill beds in the shallow areas of your pond?  Also are there Crappie in it?  If so they will directly compete with the bass for food more so than a bluegill.  If you have the means start taking out some of the smaller bass and definitely crappie if they are present.  Channel catfish can also pose a bit of a problem as well.  You could also try stocking some golden shiners as forage, they likely won't last to long but depending on size when stalked wouldn't be eaten by bluegill and crappie, if they are big enough.

The gills have tons of bedding room and then it drops off but every where you look there are beds and the crappies are all big but very few have been caught. I think I’ve made up my mind I’m going to stock some fathead Minnows and pull out some large blue gills and little bass then stock some 2-4 pound hybrid bass this year before winter. Does this sound like an okay plan?

[BuzzHudson19c]

My suggestion, start eating. Catch a bunch of small bass and have a fish fry. Take away some of the competition.

[Looking for the big one]

8 hours ago, Adleyfishes said:

The gills have tons of bedding room and then it drops off but every where you look there are beds and the crappies are all big but very few have been caught. I think I’ve made up my mind I’m going to stock some fathead Minnows and pull out some large blue gills and little bass then stock some 2-4 pound hybrid bass this year before winter. Does this sound like an okay plan?

Adding fatheads is silly, they won’t last two months with all those hungry bass and bluegills. Those added largemouth MAY be good to add later if genetics is really the problem, but definitely not right now. If you add them they will just create more mouths to feed, and without proper forage they will become skinny. I’d remove some of your larger bluegill (keep the trophy gills, loads of fun with the ultralight) and especially your small bass. If you want quality bass you have to remove all of the little bass that compete for food and don’t get enough to grow. Also get rid of any crappie, unless you are really intent on keeping them. They aren’t very big but they can eat loads of young of the year fish that you need to feed your bass.

 

Please check out the Pond Boss, he deals with situations like this all the time. You could also read the articles we have on bassresource found here:https://www.bassresource.com/lake-management/

[FishDewd]

Get rid of those large perch. In my own catfish pond, I don't have any perch larger than 6" in there. Cause the catfish eat them as food. Also, the perch eat the fry which will hurt your overall bass population. This applies to any pond with predatory fish. You need a balance. When the perch get too large they start to take over and inhibit the rest. Including bass. Keep the smaller bass, and keep all perch that are larger than 6-8". Once you stop catching large perch, then add bait like fatheads. Honestly I would recommend catching a lot of crawfish from creeks and putting those in your pond. The minnows are fine and all, but your bass need some food that is high in both fat and protein. In addition to eliminating the small bass and large perch this might just help it out. I'm not sure about adding new genes, but I would hold off on that until you get control of the competition if it were me.

 

Furthermore, how is the structure in the pond? Bass like areas they can feel safe in otherwise they spend their lives running in circles around the bank. That burns calories, therefore = skinny bass that can't fatten up.

[Further North]

I'd put something in there that eats bass.

 

Pike eat bass.

[mlee3553]

On 6/2/2018 at 12:19 AM, Looking for the big one said:

Adding fatheads is silly, they won’t last two months with all those hungry bass and bluegills. Those added largemouth MAY be good to add later if genetics is really the problem, but definitely not right now. If you add them they will just create more mouths to feed, and without proper forage they will become skinny. I’d remove some of your larger bluegill (keep the trophy gills, loads of fun with the ultralight) and especially your small bass. If you want quality bass you have to remove all of the little bass that compete for food and don’t get enough to grow. Also get rid of any crappie, unless you are really intent on keeping them. They aren’t very big but they can eat loads of young of the year fish that you need to feed your bass.

 

Please check out the Pond Boss, he deals with situations like this all the time. You could also read the articles we have on bassresource found here:https://www.bassresource.com/lake-management/

I agree, start culling small bass and every crappie you catch. Stocking any type of "feeder" fish in an established pond is going to be pretty much a waste,  they all be eaten in no time.

[Preytorien]

I had a similar problem encountered in one of the places I fish, except is was about 10 acres. The bass used to be great, then it seemed the bluegill population exploded. Now the bass rarely beat 12in and the bluegill are huge. 

 

It's not my lake, so I can "manage" it by keeping fish out of it in the quantities it would take, so now it's just my all time favorite bluegill pond. Catching them is a breeze. It's a great place to take my 4yr old daughter to pretty much guaranteed catching a fish on her new little rod and reel. 

[Stephen B]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 5:43 AM, CroakHunter said:

Hard to catch big bass if you are targeting gills and small bass. 

This is not the problem at all. The issue is that crappie and bluegill of that size are competing for the same food sources as the bass. This results in stunted bass. The solution I would recommend is to call one of your local pond management comapnies to electroshock the pond. This will enable the biologist to take a sample of the population and they can recommend a solution from their findings whether it be to remove a specific poundage of bass/crappie/bluegill per acre, stocking fish, fertilization, or liming the pond. Liming a pond is often overlooked as it aids in the fertility/reproduction of the fish. Having professional come out is the only true way to determine the root of the problem and improve the quality of fish and the overall health of the pond.

[Hog Basser]

Check out the pond boss forums....they know what they're talking about over there.  Read the articles on here about lake management, there are plenty of them and many by the pond boss.  

 

Don't just dump in more food, you're wasting money and not solving any long-term problems.  Anything dumped in won't get established and will just be a momentary snack for all your hungry fish.  I cannot stress this enough, REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE SMALL BASS AND LARGE GILLS......when you think you've removed enough, remove that many more.  You will help your pond this way.  Have a fish fry for your friends & family.  

 

Managing a pond is non-stop.  Biologists recommend removing somewhere in the 16-20 lbs per acre per year from your pond to keep it healthy (barring any other kill events).  That's a lot of fish.  If you're already overrun, you might have to do more the first year to put it in check.  When some ponds get this way, it is easier just to scrap the entire population and start from scratch by building your forage base first, then adding the right amount of bass with good genetics afterward.  

 

Good luck! 

Oh yeah, most biologists recommend not having Crappie in a pond that size due to competition for the forage base.  You generally want 30+ acres to entertain crappie.  So you might be best off scrapping and starting from scratch.  

[Stephen B]

6 minutes ago, Hog Basser said:

Check out the pond boss forums....they know what they're talking about over there.  Read the articles on here about lake management, there are plenty of them and many by the pond boss.  

 

Don't just dump in more food, you're wasting money and not solving any long-term problems.  Anything dumped in won't get established and will just be a momentary snack for all your hungry fish.  I cannot stress this enough, REMOVE REMOVE REMOVE SMALL BASS AND LARGE GILLS......when you think you've removed enough, remove that many more.  You will help your pond this way.  Have a fish fry for your friends & family.  

 

Managing a pond is non-stop.  Biologists recommend removing somewhere in the 16-20 lbs per acre per year from your pond to keep it healthy (barring any other kill events).  That's a lot of fish.  If you're already overrun, you might have to do more the first year to put it in check.  When some ponds get this way, it is easier just to scrap the entire population and start from scratch by building your forage base first, then adding the right amount of bass with good genetics afterward.  

 

Good luck! 

Oh yeah, most biologists recommend not having Crappie in a pond that size due to competition for the forage base.  You generally want 30+ acres to entertain crappie.  So you might be best off scrapping and starting from scratch.  

100% agreed, managing a pond is brutal and hard work. Also, Hog Basser is right that crappie are not recommended for small ponds.