Regular car batteries illegal in a boat

[BassnChris]

I found out today that Regular car batteries are illegal in a boat.

 

Had to take my starting battery (everstart from walmart) back to walmart today for a warranty replacement.

It has not started 3 times in the lake now. First time was last February, 2nd time was Big Bass World Championship 2 Saturdays ago and last time was yesterday . 

 

They tested and said that they would need to charge it and retest. Took about 30-45 minutes while we grocery shopped.

 

They call me to say that the battery tested good and I was ready to go.

I told them that it had stranded me 3 times so I would need to speak to a manager.

Since it was Sunday.....I get to see assistant manager who tells me if it resets good they don't exchange. I tell him I need somebody's number to call to come jump me next Saturday when it doesn't start. He apologized and said he could call the manager that was off at home todasy......I said that I'm fine with that. 

 

 

They neither seemed to understand th at U have deep cycle and starting batteries in the boat. First tried to tell me that the starting battery needs constant charge o n them. I Tell Him Has Onboard Charger For When Its Home. And Motor Has Alternator To Charge While Running.  Then He Tells Me I Am Breaking The Law Using A Regular battery in a boat.

 

I told him I've Never Heard Of That But Would Take It Under Advisement ?

 

Then They Swapped Out The Battery For Me ?

[S Hovanec]

While I know nothing of the legalities of a car battery in a boat, I know I'd never run one.  I'd use a marine starting battery.  You have a lot of accessories running off of the starting battery to risk using anything but a dual purpose battery for that application.

[Further North]

I'd have asked them which law it was you were breaking.

 

...as much as we can laugh at it...those two Gomers are going to cost some new or naive fishermen a bunch of money and be responsible for bad info getting out there...

 

I'd probably call the store manage on Monday...

[NHBull]

I am a fan of Wally World as are good for our community, but understand their short comings.

using a car battery in a boat is just asking for a tow.

if you continue to do so, carry a battery pack for jump starting.

[Ratherbfishing]

Citizens arrest!!!!!  :  )

[Lures'n'Liberty]

I wouldn't go out and buy a car battery for a boat, but I wouldn't hesitate to take the battery out of my truck to save a day of fishing. Car batteries aren't designed to be fully drained, deep cycle batteries are designed to give max amperage all in one shot. Marine cranking batteries are designed to be a happy medium between the two. I'm boat shopping, plan on buying in the spring. I also have a 4x4 play toy in the back yard. They will share a marine cranking battery.

[TheRodFather]

On 11/7/2017 at 9:49 AM, Lures'n'Liberty said:

I wouldn't go out and buy a car battery for a boat, but I wouldn't hesitate to take the battery out of my truck to save a day of fishing. Car batteries aren't designed to be fully drained, deep cycle batteries are designed to give max amperage all in one shot. Marine cranking batteries are designed to be a happy medium between the two. I'm boat shopping, plan on buying in the spring. I also have a 4x4 play toy in the back yard. They will share a marine cranking battery.

 

I'm not so sure I agree with all of this.  Your assertion that deep cycle batteries are made to give max amps at one time is incorrect.

 

Cranking batteries give high amperage's in bursts, measured in terms like "cranking amps" or "Cold cranking amps".  But they don't do well with long/deep amperage draws, they can do it, but the number of discharge/recharge cycles you can draw it down is very limited, like half a dozen or so and it won't come back.

 

Deep cycle batteries are made to draw down in lower amperage's, measured in terms like Amp-Hours.  They can be discharged/recharged many more times and still recover, though there is a limit to the number of times.  I'm not real sure if they could/should provide the short bursts to crank a starter, that's beyond my knowledge.

 

I too would use my car battery in place of my boat cranking battery, probably not in place of a trolling battery though since there is a very good chance it might kill it.

 

Edit:  I went to google to make sure I wasn't peddling BS.  I never even knew there was such a thing as a Marine Cranking Battery VS Auto cranking battery. 

 

There is a ton of conflicting info on whether there is any appreciable difference between a marine VS auto cranking battery.  Other than the 3/8 threaded studs that would not be on an auto battery of course.  Supposedly the case and internals are more robust due to anticipated vibration issues in a boat.

 

Interesting question, thanks for leading me towards learning something new.  

 

TRF

[Way2slow]

Glad to see Rodfather did his homework. 

You never want to use a deep cycle battery as a cranking battery on the larger outboard motors.  They are ok on smaller motors that don't need a lot of cranking amps but you can actually having starting problems on the big motors if running deep cycles.

As mentioned, automobile battery/cranking batteries are designed to give a large burst of current in a short time but not to be discharged very many times. 

Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged many times but not to give large burst of current for a short time.  Running them as cranking batteries on large motors that need that high current to crank can cause the batteries voltage to drop too low to turn on the engines electronics, just like trying to crank one with a weak/bad cranking battery.  Ever have your fish finder turn off when you try cranking the motor, or on cold mornings the motor is cranking over but extremely hard to get if fired up, that could be why. 

Now for runabouts and family fun boats that are not running all the electronics we run in bass boats, automotive batteries are fine.  However, if you are running a high powered stereo that's p***ing me off next to where I'm fishing you still want to avoid automotive batteries.

For those situations is why they make dual purpose batteries.  They can give that short burst of high current to crank the motor {just not for a long duration like a cranking battery} and still be discharge without harming the battery. 

I run at a minimum, the highest powered group 27 dual purpose as a cranking battery in every boat I own. a true deep cycles for TM batteries.

 

A little note, it takes a given amount of energy to crank a motor, that energy is a combination of Volts and Amps.  Higher voltage needs less amperage, lower voltage needs great amperage.  As a battery has to produce more amperage, the voltage is dropping.  A good properly sized cranking battery may drop to 10.5 or 11 volts while cranking a larger motor.  A weak or wrong size battery can drop well below 10 volts even to 7 or 8 and still make the starter turn, but that voltage is too low for the ignition system and other components to work. 

[WRB]

Deep cycle marine battery is designed for that specific use and has extra thick heavy plates, deeper case and SST battery connection post etc.

Marine cranking batteries are similar except not designed to be drained of power and recharged every outing. With today’s high amp draw electronics more then one tournament has been lost after a days fishing and the OB wouldn’t start because of low cranking battery powwer.

Tom

[RPreeb]

Another point - most of the so called "deep cycle" batteries used in boats and camping trailers are still limited in how far they can be drawn down without causing damage and shortening the life of the battery.  Most of them, group 24 to group 31, are only designed to be drawn no more than half way.  Basically that means when power drops below 12 volts, you start doing damage.  I've learned a lot of stuff I never knew since buying my camping trailer last year, and the battery thing is just one.  Most camping trailers don't come with a strong enough battery to really do what is needed, and as a result, it's often the first thing to be replaced.  Most trailer manufacturers cheap out on batteries and tires.

 

I've been very careful with the group 24 that came with the trailer, but when it comes time to replace it, I'll probably go with 2 group 31 batteries in parallel to give more draw without having to fire up the generator.  I also have a 100 watt solar panel that I set out as a trickle charger, but it's usefulness diminishes when the clouds roll in.  I hope to get set up so that I can go for 4 or 5 days of minimal conservation without ever needing the generator.

[Way2slow]

That's kinda right.  Actually it damages any lead acid battery to discharge it to less than 25% capacity, even the thick, solid lead plate batteries in industrial electric forklifts that weigh thousands of pounds each.

Now what it does affect is the batteries cycle count, the number times a battery can be discharged and recharged.  The more a battery is discharged the fewer times it can be recharged.  For instance, if you discharged it until the TM was turning very slow, say to 25% every time you used it, it may recharge 150 time.  If you only discharge it to 50%, it may recharge 250 times.  If you only discharge it to 75% it may recharge 400 times. 

Please note, these numbers are just used to show an example, by no means take them as being fact. There are a number of things that determine and affect the cycle count of batteries, Flooded cell vs AGM, the type construction, spiral or stacked cells, the type alloy the plates are made of, how close the plates are stacked together, the design of the plates and the list goes on. 

 

[Lures'n'Liberty]

On 11/8/2017 at 4:40 PM, TheRodFather said:

 

I'm not so sure I agree with all of this.  Your assertion that deep cycle batteries are made to give max amps at one time is incorrect.

 

Cranking batteries give high amperage's in bursts, measured in terms like "cranking amps" or "Cold cranking amps".  But they don't do well with long/deep amperage draws, they can do it, but the number of discharge/recharge cycles you can draw it down is very limited, like half a dozen or so and it won't come back.

 

Deep cycle batteries are made to draw down in lower amperage's, measured in terms like Amp-Hours.  They can be discharged/recharged many more times and still recover, though there is a limit to the number of times.  I'm not real sure if they could/should provide the short bursts to crank a starter, that's beyond my knowledge.

 

I too would use my car battery in place of my boat cranking battery, probably not in place of a trolling battery though since there is a very good chance it might kill it.

 

Edit:  I went to google to make sure I wasn't peddling BS.  I never even knew there was such a thing as a Marine Cranking Battery VS Auto cranking battery. 

 

There is a ton of conflicting info on whether there is any appreciable difference between a marine VS auto cranking battery.  Other than the 3/8 threaded studs that would not be on an auto battery of course.  Supposedly the case and internals are more robust due to anticipated vibration issues in a boat.

 

Interesting question, thanks for leading me towards learning something new.  

 

TRF

Yes, absolutely, 100%, I don't think I typed exactly what my thoughts were before coffee. I didn't proofread. My apologies to all the readers, I believe I transposed a few words, corrected by you. 

 

Anywhoo, to clarify the edit a bit, there is a difference. A deep cycle battery is designed to be fully drained, slowly, and hold a charge for a very long time, with a chemical reaction creating energy from deep within the plates (hence the name).  An automotive cranking battery is built to put out the highest amperage all at once, with plates deep enough to hold as much of a charge, for long (a shorter cycle). Quality marine cranking batteries will have slightly thicker plates than an automotive battery, as to hold a stronger charge for a longer period of time. If you're looking at the differences on a store shelf, you'll notice that the screw type terminals are very common in marine use, but the group designation and the letters after it determine the terminal type, polarity, and venting.