Pro vs Joe

[huffman1988]

I don't fish any lakes where there are an abundance of big tournaments. I fish some smaller tournaments, and even when other small tournaments Im not involved in are going on I won't cut anyone off. However if someone is pleasure fishing, and I am fishing a tournament I wont cut them off either. If I was fishing during a big tournament I would not impede by fishing around someone intentionally. If I was somewhere fishing, and they pulled up on me I am not going to pack my stuff and leave. I don't think someone fishing a tournament has any more right to a spot then anyone else, but you should still be courteous. As far as comparing it to playing catch on a football field during an NFL game I think you might go to jail for that, but its not illegal to keep fishing a spot if a tournament fisherman pulls up on you. 

[Gundog]

I'd probably just find something else to do instead of fishing that day on that lake. I've only once been on a body of water that was holding a tournament. Fortunately, it was a small, local contest and if it weren't for the yellow ribbons on the trolling motors I wouldn't have even known it was going on. I can usually find fish without following a crowd, or jumping on someone's spot so poaching is not even a consideration. 

[Catt]

@MichaelCopeland I see you're in central Louisiana

 

There are a lot of FLW & Elite tournaments within a couple hours drive of Alexander.

 

FLW, FLW BFL, FLW Weekend Series, Bassmaster Elite, Bassmaster Open, Bassmaster Weekend Regional, Bass Champs, Bass-n-Bucks, Texas Team Trail, plus High School & College series.

 

All of these visit the Red River, Toledo Bend, Rayburn, Sabine River, & the marshes around New Orleans.

 

A Google search will reveal when & where, if you've never seen a weight-in ya need to!

[MichaelCopeland]

34 minutes ago, Catt said:

@MichaelCopeland I see you're in central Louisiana

 

There are a lot of FLW & Elite tournaments within a couple hours drive of Alexander.

 

FLW, FLW BFL, FLW Weekend Series, Bassmaster Elite, Bassmaster Open, Bassmaster Weekend Regional, Bass Champs, Bass-n-Bucks, Texas Team Trail, plus High School & College series.

 

All of these visit the Red River, Toledo Bend, Rayburn, Sabine River, & the marshes around New Orleans.

 

A Google search will reveal when & where, if you've never seen a weight-in ya need to!

I'll definitely have to look into that and see what my chances are of getting out to one or more of them. It would cool to see how some real bass pros do it. I did meet Mark Daniels Jr. A couple summers ago. He's a very nice guy. He's also an FLW and Team Rat-L-Trap pro. He came to my work to see how they were made and all. Gotta a pic of him with my girlfriend and me somewhere. I'll post it up when I find it.

[jtharris3]

 

[scaleface]

I would fish it but would never follow anybody . I like to  find my own fish .  To me thats the whole sport . If I see a pro I would probably give way to him but would like to have  a brief conversation .  

 

Now the wanna b pros wearing their jerseys and fishing bent rod patterns , I'll give them no leeway .

[Jaderose]

A fisherman (or woman) is a fisherman to me.  I steer clear and expect the same courtesy.If I'm working a shoreline and hit upon a hot spot that I'm focusing on, I would expect someone behind me to to give a wide berth as they go around.  I would prefer they not fall in in front of me and work the shoreline ahead of me in the direction I am working but I don't think anything about if they do.  I do the same for others.  It's simply about respect and enjoyment on the water for all.  

 

With all that said, I've never been on a lake with a pro tournament going on.  I suspect I'd just stay off of it and let the pro's work.

[Tlauz]

 Not a problem for me. I don't fish any lakes where there are tournaments.  I think there is a BASS college tourney close to me this year and I may go watch and not fish.  If I did live where there are a lot of tournaments, I wouldn't fish. Too many good lakes around.  Find one not as busy.  I hate crowds.  I always try to fish away from people.  Many days there are only a handful of boats when I am fishing.  Also, If I was on a big lake my boat could never keep up with theirs, so following them wouldn't be an option   The only exception would be if there was only one lake in the area and this was my only time to fish.  Then I would try to find fish away from everyone. 

[hoosierbass07]

If they are holding tournaments every freaking weekend, I would tell them to go jump off a bridge.  It's a PUBLIC lake!  I work very hard at work M-F eight hours and sometimes twelve hours every night.  If I go to a lake and they holding tournaments every weekend I would definitely fish at that lake and if they shove me around I would shove them back.  

[Bulletman20XD]

A few years ago I was fishing a local tourney that no one mentioned or knew had opened up for the Elite practice days. A WELL KNOWN pro approached and basically asked me to move he was practicing for the upcoming Elite tourney. I told him I was fishing a tourney and wasn't moving for him or anyone else. He continued running his mouth until I told him I personally knew a couple of his fellow Elite competitors and Trip Weldon and would make a phone call if he didn't shut his mouth. He moved away!

 

Like most others if an Elite or any other tourney is on a lake I will go elsewhere if I know it. If I'm fishing and a guy tells me he's fishing a tourney I'll give way to him. BUT Mr. NJ or anyone else orders me to get out of their way, move etc... I will get irate in about .2 seconds. Retired Army, Ex Cop, Type A personality what do they expect??? LOL

[NHBull]

Recently I have met a few retired tournament fishermen.....guys who got checks for a few years, and have to say they have been fun and very helpful now that they are not competiting.

I have learned a lot this summer, just having coffee with them

[Bluebasser86]

I've been on the water for both Classics in Oklahoma on Grand, and a Bass Fest on Table Rock. I fished all 3 times and crossed paths with pros on all occasions. The first Classic, my brother in law and I were fishing a point when Ike and his floatilla roared up to the point and he dropped his trolling motor to fish. We reeled in and backed off and watched him make about 10 cast before he took off again. We returned to the point and continued to catch fish like we had before he'd pulled up. 

I'm on the water, I'm going to be fishing, but I'm not going to fish an area while a pro is fishing or try to intentionally go in behind them and catch fish to feel better about myself or whatever reasons some folks seem to do that for. I understand they're trying to make a living at something that is very difficult to make a living doing. I'm going to respect them and behave just like I'd hope they'd do for me if the rolls were reversed. 

[Oregon Native]

"Try" to follow the age old saying "Do unto others as you would have them do to you"

Doesn't work to bad and I feel better with myself.

[scaleface]

On 9/1/2017 at 6:56 PM, Bulletman20XD said:

BUT Mr. NJ or anyone else orders me to get out of their way, move

Well , I have a good guess who that was , not surprising either .

[Bulletman20XD]

22 minutes ago, scaleface said:

Well , I have a good guess who that was , not surprising either .

LOL----Was it that obvious??  If you hadn't noticed he's calmed down considerably from previous years. I was a Judge for the Toyota tourney on Rayburn back in May. During the training/orientation day, several of the BASS officials made jokes about him and his "antics" as they put it. Many I have spoken to over the years have had heated run-ins with him so I warned my partner who drew him on day 3. He said he was just as calm and quite as he could be. We surmised that BASS has told him to chill his heels.

[Turkey sandwich]

I'm a big fan of civility on the water and have very rarely run into issues with other anglers.  The ones I have, have typically voiced the "well, I spent money on a license..." logic.  The problem with this logic is that you could extend it to whatever end and use it to justify all sorts of crap behavior.  Arguing a "right" to interfere with someone's work on the basis of paying a small fee for access to public water is akin to standing in the middle of a road, during a parade and justifying it by means of paying taxes and it being public space.  As much as it sometimes hurts to suck it up and move, the logic against it is crap and largely serves to justify being a jerk.  With that said, pros also shouldn't act entitled to locals. 

 

I also think this "problem" is a matter of perspective.  Is it more important to you to not back down and puff out your chest, or do you look at fishing as an opportunity to learn? (obviously this is if you aren't also competing in a tournament that day)  If I'm on a spot, and pros start pulling up, it's reinforcing my strategy and giving me an opportunity to watch their technique from a distance understanding that they're likely better than I am at what they're doing and I'm going to take a bunch of notes and appreciate a free learning experience.  Might this keep my line out of the water? Sure, but it's going to make me better.  I am not fishing to fill my freezer, whereas that guy is fishing to fill his freezer, pay his mortgage, put clothes on his kid, etc.

 

 Frankly, the misconception that pros make a fortune only makes this problem worse.  Half that field, or better hardly make real money after you take into account travel, housing, maintenance, etc.  These guys likely guide every free weekend they can muster just to cover entry fees.  Most folks don't realize how financially backwards fishing tournaments are run.  Most of the prize money doesn't come from a sponsor, but from massive registration fees.  The sponsors may cover production and logistical costs, but those anglers are all PAYING thousands of dollars for each tournament entry.  So, imagine if you work in sales and pay for your leads, and on them, the old school Domino's Noid shows up and destroys your presentation.  You probably aren't going to make much money, and you probably hate the Noid. Don't be the Noid. 

[Bulletman20XD]

Kicker I agree with some of your sentiment, but you brought up a related issue that I just had to shed light on. Years ago, while serving in the military I started fishing competitively and was very successful on the local level early on. This led me to have ambitions of becoming a professional angler. This is where I met a guy who is now one of the top Elite pros. I was consistently beating him back then which makes me reflect on what could have been every time I see him on TV, magazines, or tackle displays. At that time I had a new wife, a new baby, and was basically halfway thru a successful career with a decent retirement. I was literally one signature away from getting out of the Army and throwing all those years away. I quickly learned this was all going to come at a price. I almost lost my new wife due to the time spent on the water which was required of me to get there. After talking with a few people in the industry and learning of how difficult it is financially, and of how long it takes to get there, I quickly chose my family and career over those aspirations.

In an earlier post I mentioned I personally knew a couple elite pros (and another FLW pro). I won't mention their names to protect the guilty. The aforementioned person is one of the top pros the other is down the ladder a few rungs. They have many of the same sponsors but that is where the similarities end. Having the same sponsors some may believe they get the same perks from them, not necessarily true. In any professional sport, the higher you finish the more publicity you get, but there are other things a person must possess. Companies do not give a full sponsorships to one-hit-wonders. It's where you finish consistently, image, professionalism, attitude, and a few other things. If you have the "complete package", a pro can expect to receive more from his sponsors, but their expectations of you increases as well. Sponsors require you to give them publicity not only from their name/logo on the side of the boat and mentioning their name at weigh-ins that airs on national TV but from actually using their product and appearances at boat, tackle, and outdoor shows, TV commercials, magazine ads etc... It is nothing more than a product advertisement game. Advertisements on TV are extremely expensive. Sponsoring a fishing pro is relatively cheap in comparison. Whether on or off the water, the top pros usually have the cameras on them during the tourneys for extended periods of time, and at times for a much longer period of time than a 15-30 second TV commercial. Near all equipment sponsorships, to include top boat and truck sponsorships usually range from company cost, discounted prices, to free depending on who the angler is. Entry fees may also be paid in full or partial, again depending on the angler. The bigger the company name the bigger the perks. Take KVD for instance, he is not only a great angler but also a giant media draw no matter where he is. I would bet that there isn't a bass angler in the world that doesn't know his name or recognize his face. For this reason he could finish last in every tourney and still have full sponsorships with any company. He was in a slump for a few years but still maintained ALL his sponsors. Another case in point is a fairly recent Classic winner in the field that still places well in the top 50 and an occasional top 12. I bet 5 out of 10 people could not call him by name if he was standing in front of them. He has sponsors but not many, which is possibly because he has a bad reputation among his peers because of attitude. I believe if he could change that one single thing, his sponsorships would change along with it! There are many other well-known anglers who haven't won a tourney in years but still maintain great sponsors because of their image and the fan following they have (Skeet Reese, Gary Klein, Boyd Duckett). On the flip side, there are those elite anglers that don't usually do well and don't have great sponsorships. These are the guys who have their own businesses or are independently wealthy and pay their own way. As mentioned many pros guide on their home lakes to help pay their bills. Out of the 109 or so Elites, 60-70 of them struggle from year to year to stay. Many are not married, have no kids to feed, some even still live with mom. They choose that lifestyle to be able to afford to compete on that level.

Being a professional in this sport isn’t an easy game or lifestyle, they have to remember sponsorships is what pays the bills. Being a jerk on the water to fans and other fisherman, especially when there is a high likelihood it will be caught on camera, can cost them those sponsorships and eventually their livelihood!!

Just so you don't think I am BSing--I'm in the picture.

 

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, Bulletman20XD said:

Kicker I agree with some of your sentiment, but you brought up a related issue that I just had to shed light on. Years ago, while serving in the military I started fishing competitively and was very successful on the local level early on. This led me to have ambitions of becoming a professional angler. This is where I met a guy who is now one of the top Elite pros. I was consistently beating him back then which makes me reflect on what could have been every time I see him on TV, magazines, or tackle displays. At that time I had a new wife, a new baby, and was basically halfway thru a successful career with a decent retirement. I was literally one signature away from getting out of the Army and throwing all those years away. I quickly learned this was all going to come at a price. I almost lost my new wife due to the time spent on the water which was required of me to get there. After talking with a few people in the industry and learning of how difficult it is financially, and of how long it takes to get there, I quickly chose my family and career over those aspirations.

In an earlier post I mentioned I personally knew a couple elite pros (and another FLW pro). I won't mention their names to protect the guilty. The aforementioned person is one of the top pros the other is down the ladder a few rungs. They have many of the same sponsors but that is where the similarities end. Having the same sponsors some may believe they get the same perks from them, not necessarily true. In any professional sport, the higher you finish the more publicity you get, but there are other things a person must possess. Companies do not give a full sponsorships to one-hit-wonders. It's where you finish consistently, image, professionalism, attitude, and a few other things. If you have the "complete package", a pro can expect to receive more from his sponsors, but their expectations of you increases as well. Sponsors require you to give them publicity not only from their name/logo on the side of the boat and mentioning their name at weigh-ins that airs on national TV but from actually using their product and appearances at boat, tackle, and outdoor shows, TV commercials, magazine ads etc... It is nothing more than a product advertisement game. Advertisements on TV are extremely expensive. Sponsoring a fishing pro is relatively cheap in comparison. Whether on or off the water, the top pros usually have the cameras on them during the tourneys for extended periods of time, and at times for a much longer period of time than a 15-30 second TV commercial. Near all equipment sponsorships, to include top boat and truck sponsorships usually range from company cost, discounted prices, to free depending on who the angler is. Entry fees may also be paid in full or partial, again depending on the angler. The bigger the company name the bigger the perks. Take KVD for instance, he is not only a great angler but also a giant media draw no matter where he is. I would bet that there isn't a bass angler in the world that doesn't know his name or recognize his face. For this reason he could finish last in every tourney and still have full sponsorships with any company. He was in a slump for a few years but still maintained ALL his sponsors. Another case in point is a fairly recent Classic winner in the field that still places well in the top 50 and an occasional top 12. I bet 5 out of 10 people could not call him by name if he was standing in front of them. He has sponsors but not many, which is possibly because he has a bad reputation among his peers because of attitude. I believe if he could change that one single thing, his sponsorships would change along with it! There are many other well-known anglers who haven't won a tourney in years but still maintain great sponsors because of their image and the fan following they have (Skeet Reese, Gary Klein, Boyd Duckett). On the flip side, there are those elite anglers that don't usually do well and don't have great sponsorships. These are the guys who have their own businesses or are independently wealthy and pay their own way. As mentioned many pros guide on their home lakes to help pay their bills. Out of the 109 or so Elites, 60-70 of them struggle from year to year to stay. Many are not married, have no kids to feed, some even still live with mom. They choose that lifestyle to be able to afford to compete on that level.

Being a professional in this sport isn’t an easy game or lifestyle, they have to remember sponsorships is what pays the bills. Being a jerk on the water to fans and other fisherman, especially when there is a high likelihood it will be caught on camera, can cost them those sponsorships and eventually their livelihood!!

Just so you don't think I am BSing--I'm in the picture.

 

Good write up. I know you're not an Ike fan (to each their own) I happen to be an Ike fan. I've read his book a couple times and his first marriage basically dissolved because of fishing. He also explains how he does his sponsorships. If I remember right he has 3-4 different tiers to his sponsorship. The more he gets from each sponsor the bigger their name on his boat/jersey. In return the more he gets the more he does. Ike fan or not he basically explains everything you've explained in his book. I'm not plugging the book, just saying it gives you and inside look into a professional angler the good and the bad. So much so some of his fellow anglers got upset at some of the content. Ike's lost sponsors because of his actions over the years. I've heard people like yourself say he's an a$$ and others say the opposite. The same can be said for probably every angler. Every dog has their day. He's toned it down over the years. I think age, new wife, newborns have slowed him down. Some of his antics are pure marketing which is pure genius. Win or lose you need to keep yourself relevant. 

 

Gerald Swindle, 2 AOY'S and 0 Elite wins. One of the most recognizable and well like anglers. Marketing yourself plays a big part. He's loud, he's funny, and he makes himself seen even when he has a bad day.

 

I read an article a month ago about Mark Zona. He was quickly shooting up the ladder to the top. Then his wife dropped the bombshell "you're going to be a daddy". He quickly hit the brakes and weighed his options. He took the safe route and kept selling boats. Then KVD mentioned him to someone at ESPN and with a little nudge from his wife, long story short the rest is history. 

 

It really takes a special person and risk taker to take that step. You were there you know what it feels like. Most of us will only imagine. Over the years I've thought I'd give anything to be a pro but honestly I wouldn't want it. It would be fun, but it would be a lot of work and a ton of stress. I enjoy fishing and trying to figure out the puzzle. I wouldn't want my livelihood  to depend on whether or not I had enough pieces figured out for that day.

[Ratherbfishing]

I think this applies to locals, recreational travelers, or tournament fishermen equally. IF I am aware that a big tournament is on a lake that I hoped to fish, I don't go.  Same for why I don't fish from a boat on weekends.  If, on the other hand, I, coincidentally, happen to be on a lake while a tournament is occurring, I do NOT change my habits for them.  A public lake is a public lake is a public lake.  Having said that, I try to be respectful to other boaters or bank fisherment-REGARDLESS s of their status.  Will I leave a spot if someone asks me to?  No. Will I "torment" them or "antagonize" them?  Only if they have done so to me, first.  What goes around comes around.

 

Arguments have been made that for tournament fishermen this is their living and, therefore, should be afforded special "accommodations."  From where I'm sitting, the opportunity to fish is as important to me (for my sanity and recreation) and has as much validity and importance as their respective career.  Not more but not less.  Besides, with few exceptions, if they are patient, I will likely move out of their spot eventually anyway (unless they get nasty).  If they are as good as they want to believe they are, they will catch the fish I missed.

[Johnbt]

I don't like crowds, especially crowds of noisy outboards - pro or non-pro.

 

I'd give a tournament fisherman about as much room as I'd give a professional tractor-trailer driver on the interstate - they're both driving fast and trying to make a living.

 

Having said that, the swarms of big fast trucks pulling big fast boats in the dark on a little two lane road are almost enough to make me leave home for the weekend.   I know the speed limit is 55, and 45 in places, but these folks are used to getting places in a hurry. Zoom.

 

I'm a mile north of the ramp on that little road... "Aug 2, 2017 HENRICO — More than 300 anglers will take off from Osborne Park & Boat Landing at 6 a.m. on Thursday for the start of a pivotal event in the Bass Pro Shops Bassmaster Opens series." 

 

John

[DINK WHISPERER]

I'll go somewhere else for the day/days. I don't like to put up with the crowds or the dirt bag wannabe pros. I was flipping on Okeechobee one day while a big tourney was going on(I didn't know). This big wrapped boat comes in right in front of us maybe 50ft and starts flipping right on top of us. I was ticked and told my buddy i wish we could pop one right in front of them. A couple minutes in to it I nail one over 6.5lbs. They actually rushed over and asked if we were in the tournament first then asked how much for the fish. I was disgusted and released it right in their faces. After that i avoid them when I can. 

[flyfisher]

8 minutes ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

I'll go somewhere else for the day/days. I don't like to put up with the crowds or the dirt bag wannabe pros. I was flipping on Okeechobee one day while a big tourney was going on(I didn't know). This big wrapped boat comes in right in front of us maybe 50ft and starts flipping right on top of us. I was ticked and told my buddy i wish we could pop one right in front of them. A couple minutes in to it I nail one over 6.5lbs. They actually rushed over and asked if we were in the tournament first then asked how much for the fish. I was disgusted and released it right in their faces. After that i avoid them when I can. 

who was the angler? 

[DINK WHISPERER]

14 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

who was the angler? 

Not really sure to be honest. Looked all fancy with the Jersey and big boat, the whole 9. Don't think it was a big time pro though. Probably a local is my guess. 

[TnRiver46]

There are several tournaments on every lake anywhere near me every weekend all year long and quite a few on weekday evenings also. It's impossible to avoid them all. I used to float rivers in canoes to avoid tournament (anglers) but now they have jet boat river tournaments. I treat everybody the same and don't move in on anyone's spot. I wouldn't dream of moving in and asking someone if I could fish near them, that just sounds ridiculous even typing it. Around here if there is $350 on the line people have the green light to fish right next to your boat and be as rude as possible. Or they will just zoom by your canoe at 40 mph in 1 ft of water

[N Florida Mike]

I generally fish small waters because I hate crowds , so its not likely to happen with me. That being said, if anyone fishing a tournament asked me nice, I would gladly give up the spot , unless I was fishing a tournament myself. If they roared up and cut in to where i was too close without asking , I would have a problem with that. Although I wouldnt leave , I may or may not say anything.

If I had the chance to share a few tips on  spots and baits with a pro on a local water body I would do it in a heartbeat.

With me , its the non fisherman boaters that cause most of the problem. Had a dunce run right over my line the other day with no regard to me whatsoever. Then seemed genuinly suprised when he got yelled at !?