Drop Shot Guide size help

[Josh_Bovaird]

Im looking at doing a drop shot build on the MHX High-Mod Gen II Drop Shot Rod Blank DS822 blank with a carbon Tennessee style handle.  Im new to the game and having trouble picking the guide sizes.  Im looking at using the Fuji K-Series Single-Foot Spinning Reduction Guides, I have them on a 13 rod I won and really like them.  What do you guys think for guide sizes?  If you can recommend any other guides similar or superior let me know.  Trying to keep the build light and to make a killer drop shot rod.

[.ghoti.]

This should give you a good starting point.

 

http://merricktackle.com/tips/KR-concept-guide-placement-charts.pdf

 

[Josh_Bovaird]

Thanks for that info ghoti, now how big of a deal is the ring type material?

And on that guide it has a 6'6" and a 7' I'm taking it i should go more towards to 7' setup?

[MickD]

The ring material has nothing to do with placement, and in my opinion, all the materials available today will take mono, FC, and braid.   I would use premium material for the tiptop, like SC.

 

As to placement, I really like the charts in the Fuji catalog.  They take into account the type of line and pound test.  

 

Start here:  http://anglersresource.net/Catalog.aspx

[S Hovanec]

The 2 setups I use on my dropshot rods are:

 

KL16H, KL8H, KL5.5M, 4 or 4.5 running guides

KL20H, KL10H, KL5.5M, 4 or 4.5 running guides.

[Josh_Bovaird]

3 hours ago, S Hovanec said:

The 2 setups I use on my dropshot rods are:

 

KL16H, KL8H, KL5.5M, 4 or 4.5 running guides

KL20H, KL10H, KL5.5M, 4 or 4.5 running guides.

Thanks what material guides do you use, do you splurge for the titanium?  Was looking at the recoil guides to

[S Hovanec]

My personal rods get the titanium treatment.  Current DS rod has Torzite.  Prior DS rod had Y frame TiSiC.  One prior to that had black Alconites.

 

I'm not a fan of Recoils.  Yea, they're light, but I have a problem with metal touching my line.  Plus, they're too short for and they cost as much as TiSic Fuji's.

[Josh_Bovaird]

10 hours ago, S Hovanec said:

My personal rods get the titanium treatment.  Current DS rod has Torzite.  Prior DS rod had Y frame TiSiC.  One prior to that had black Alconites.

 

I'm not a fan of Recoils.  Yea, they're light, but I have a problem with metal touching my line.  Plus, they're too short for and they cost as much as TiSic Fuji's.

I was leaning toward the recoil because they are about 50$ cheaper on mudhole.  Is it worth it to drop the extra coin?

[.ghoti.]

12 minutes ago, Josh_Bovaird said:

I was leaning toward the recoil because they are about 50$ cheaper on mudhole.  Is it worth it to drop the extra coin?

 

I have never had a problem with Recoil guides. I have several factory rods with them, and one I built for myself with them. I have no experience with Recoils on a spinning rod, so I cant comment on them.

 

On a casting rod, the low height of Recoils almost demands a spiral wrap setup. That would be a non-issue on a spinning rod.

 

Titanium framed guides will give you a weight reduction, which to some, is all important. You will have to run the numbers on that, and then decide if the reduced weight is worth the extra cost. Titanium will take a bit of weight off the business end of the rod, but you can accomplish the same effect by moving the reel seat a little bit forward.

 

As far as guide ring material goes, I like Alconite. Size and frame material being the same, and SiC guide will be roughly twice the cost of an Alconite. And, you cant tell the difference when fishing. If somebody tells you they can feel the difference while fishing, ask them to roll you some of the stuff they've been smoking, because it most be some pretty good shtuff.

 

As far as Torzite goes, those are for the guy who's ego demands that their toys be the most expensive.

 

Unless youre married to Fuji guides, check out Alps titanium guides. Y series for the stripper and next guide, TVS series for reductio guides, and F series for running guides. Titanium franes with Zirconium rings. Zirconium is between Alconite and SiC in terms of hardness.

[S Hovanec]

2 hours ago, Josh_Bovaird said:

I was leaning toward the recoil because they are about 50$ cheaper on mudhole.  Is it worth it to drop the extra coin?

 

Go with K frame Alconite then.  The Recoils aren't tall enough to get a proper layout, IMO.  The Alconites will be cheaper and are a good guide too.  Best bang for the buck.

[Josh_Bovaird]

42 minutes ago, S Hovanec said:

 

Go with K frame Alconite then.  The Recoils aren't tall enough to get a proper layout, IMO.  The Alconites will be cheaper and are a good guide too.  Best bang for the buck.

Ill definitely be going titanium I wasn't sure on the difference the ring material would make.  I think i have as much fun picking stuff out for a build as building the rod.  So much to learn!

[S Hovanec]

To be honest, the only reason I use the Titanium frames is I like the color!  The weight difference between SS and Titanium in the running guides is almost immeasurable.  You have to weigh them in lots of 10 to get a grip on how light they are.  The big difference is in the reduction guides, and it's not all that much either.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I skip titanium unless exposure to saltwater is likely. I agree that they look rich though. 

[Jay Dubay]

Have you considered Pac-Bay minima use type M match guides as your first 3,  The match guides are tall enough to get a proper layout then go to the regular for your running guides up to the tip, You can get them with titanium coated rings if you choose. I don't care for the Recoils as they have a habit to talk to you, They sing when wet line passes through them I find them annoying. I have had Great Luck with all the Pac-Bay guides, I use them on most of my personal builds their great guides for a great price! Hard to beat, Jaa 

[Josh_Bovaird]

1 hour ago, Jay Dubay said:

Have you considered Pac-Bay minima use type M match guides as your first 3,  The match guides are tall enough to get a proper layout then go to the regular for your running guides up to the tip, You can get them with titanium coated rings if you choose. I don't care for the Recoils as they have a habit to talk to you, They sing when wet line passes through them I find them annoying. I have had Great Luck with all the Pac-Bay guides, I use them on most of my personal builds their great guides for a great price! Hard to beat, Jaa 

I just checked on those and they aren't a bad price at all I keep them in mind

On December 31, 2016 at 1:01 PM, S Hovanec said:

To be honest, the only reason I use the Titanium frames is I like the color!  The weight difference between SS and Titanium in the running guides is almost immeasurable.  You have to weigh them in lots of 10 to get a grip on how light they are.  The big difference is in the reduction guides, and it's not all that much either.

Thats why I'm trying to ask this stuff first before dropping extra money for nothing.  I got more rods to build so whatever I can save towards the next is good but i don't wanna cheap out either. 

On December 31, 2016 at 10:29 AM, .ghoti. said:

 

I have never had a problem with Recoil guides. I have several factory rods with them, and one I built for myself with them. I have no experience with Recoils on a spinning rod, so I cant comment on them.

 

On a casting rod, the low height of Recoils almost demands a spiral wrap setup. That would be a non-issue on a spinning rod.

 

Titanium framed guides will give you a weight reduction, which to some, is all important. You will have to run the numbers on that, and then decide if the reduced weight is worth the extra cost. Titanium will take a bit of weight off the business end of the rod, but you can accomplish the same effect by moving the reel seat a little bit forward.

 

As far as guide ring material goes, I like Alconite. Size and frame material being the same, and SiC guide will be roughly twice the cost of an Alconite. And, you cant tell the difference when fishing. If somebody tells you they can feel the difference while fishing, ask them to roll you some of the stuff they've been smoking, because it most be some pretty good shtuff.

 

As far as Torzite goes, those are for the guy who's ego demands that their toys be the most expensive.

 

Unless youre married to Fuji guides, check out Alps titanium guides. Y series for the stripper and next guide, TVS series for reductio guides, and F series for running guides. Titanium franes with Zirconium rings. Zirconium is between Alconite and SiC in terms of hardness.

Thanks for the input

[spoonplugger1]

Since a dropshot rod is a vertical presentation I see no reason for using such large guides as noted above. Sensitivity is paramount, casting performance not so much. Wouldn't it make sense to go smaller and lighter?

Do this simple test, take your lightest powered, similar length casting rod out and install your dropshot spinning reel and line on it and take it out and cast it. This setup will have everything bad going for it, low frame guide to close to the reel, line slap on blank, etc. the worst case scenario there is. How do you like how it balances?

Now that you've seen it casts suprisingly well, what size spinning guide are you going to start with on that rod that doesn't need to cast into next week? That said my dropshot rod starting with a #10 match guide/micro guide setup out casts an identical rod I built with a standard setup both with braid and the mono I use for dropshotting.

The problem with the systems mentioned above by others is that they don't and can't take into account every rod type and need. Think outside the box, because there really never was a box in the first place. My factory built European match rod, rated for 2 to 9 lb. line, I've had for 30 years has a #10 match guide as the first guide, so this is nothing new outside the US. I can float fish both sides of many pretty good sized steelhead rivers with this 12 ft. spinning rod.

[Josh_Bovaird]

I think I'm gonna try the Minima titanium guides in size 16,8,5 and thinking about there minima fly running guides in 4 or 5 with a fuji titanium torzite in 4.5.  What do you guys think, they look like some lightweight guides?

[Lyman X]

If you use Minima fly guides try and make sure they are the double swaged ones. These used to be known as Minima 4's. Minima 3's were single swaged and some had sharp edges on the tip side of the ring. This drove me nuts.

[Josh_Bovaird]

1 hour ago, Lyman X said:

If you use Minima fly guides try and make sure they are the double swaged ones. These used to be known as Minima 4's. Minima 3's were single swaged and some had sharp edges on the tip side of the ring. This drove me nuts.

Thanks for the info all it says is minima fly guides on mudhole ill have to look into it

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I've used Minimas on med to light rods with no problem at all including braid. I use a ringed tip top though. 

[Josh_Bovaird]

20 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

I've used Minimas on med to light rods with no problem at all including braid. I use a ringed tip top though. 

I plan on using a ringed top, I was looking at recoils but mudhole is out of stock on a few sizes so I was looking into the Minimas. Do you think the recoils are lighter than the minimas?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

They're really close weight wise. Recoils are indestructible but more expensive and kinda ugly. 

[Josh_Bovaird]

12 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

They're really close weight wise. Recoils are indestructible but more expensive and kinda ugly. 

Im still looking at the recoils in black, they aren't a lot more than the minimas

[spoonplugger1]

Josh,

I don't know if you noticed but the height of the REC spinning guides is lower than other guides out there for the same size, since height is our #1 concern you'll have to compensate with larger guides to make up the difference.

By the way the guide suggestions I made were not mine alone, Pat Vinzant who specializes in building some of the lightest, most sensitive spinning rods on the planet originally brought it to the attention of the custom rod builders about 8 years ago. Bob McKamey than owner of Custom Tackle in TN. who now works for Mudhole and his son Hunter published their results a bit later on Rodbuilding.Org. They built two identical 6 Ft. medium power spinning rods one built Fuji NGC which has been around many years and the other their way. They got better casting results with braid, braid knotted to 10 Ft. of fluorocarbon and wound on the reel, and fluorocarbon/mono blend 8 lb. P Line. Final guide size was 3mm.

Again this is all info out there for a good long bit and used by many. The test was done with a Shimano Saros 2500, nothing special others aren't using regularly.

Hunter McKamey is now on a tournament winning college bass team.

[Josh_Bovaird]

5 hours ago, spoonplugger1 said:

Josh,

I don't know if you noticed but the height of the REC spinning guides is lower than other guides out there for the same size, since height is our #1 concern you'll have to compensate with larger guides to make up the difference.

By the way the guide suggestions I made were not mine alone, Pat Vinzant who specializes in building some of the lightest, most sensitive spinning rods on the planet originally brought it to the attention of the custom rod builders about 8 years ago. Bob McKamey than owner of Custom Tackle in TN. who now works for Mudhole and his son Hunter published their results a bit later on Rodbuilding.Org. They built two identical 6 Ft. medium power spinning rods one built Fuji NGC which has been around many years and the other their way. They got better casting results with braid, braid knotted to 10 Ft. of fluorocarbon and wound on the reel, and fluorocarbon/mono blend 8 lb. P Line. Final guide size was 3mm.

Again this is all info out there for a good long bit and used by many. The test was done with a Shimano Saros 2500, nothing special others aren't using regularly.

Hunter McKamey is now on a tournament winning college bass team.

Yeah I'm new to this game and glad you said something i wasn't sure on it.  I was looking at the fuji ks but they aren't cheap but I'm not looking for the cheapest rod either.  I wanna build a serious drop shot rod!  I run 10# braid with a 6-8# leader also.