Suspendingjerk Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I am afraid that I do not own a 180 dollar Shimano reel made in China. Sure, it may have parts of it that is made in China, but I trust their QC to GENERALLY make the right decision to source the best parts. Why is that reel 30 dollars? It's because the sales team of that company looked at rest of the products available, and found the most competitive price range for its product, while making the most gross sales. Could that reel be the right one for you? Sure, of course it can! But do not think you are outsmarting the market (very very very few people can do such a thing), by calling it a "better" product. I cannot say I have 'outsmarted' the market. I am saying that floridafishinfool has a point, and we should pay attention to what he says. If it says made in China.. The whole thing is made and assembled in China. I don't know what you were getting at. I honestly hope you don't believe shimano buys certain parts from China and then assembles them in Japan along with Japan made parts. 1
FloridaFishinFool Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 It's not so much the $30.00 reel as it is, who made that reel. Shimano makes a thirty dollar reel, the Sienna. It's more about who makes the reel. The big name companies have a reputation to protect. The"unknowns" don't. Make a boatload of thirty dollar reels and disappear. Happens all the time, and not just with fishing reels. Hootie Hootie, one thing you are not considering is that the Chinese realize that a lot of people have low opinions of them. So what are the Chinese doing about it? For one, the Chinese are buying up name brand companies and buying their already established brand names and market shares and reputations. And for two, a lot of Chinese companies are getting up on their game to improve their products to earn an improved opinion of them and their products. And for me, Tokushima has done this with their top of the line spinning reels which I am now buying because they are trying to improve and I like the price for what I am getting. Simple as that. Shimano on the other hand is going backwards in this game. They are keeping their prices up there while they quietly have more and more of their products made cheaply in China, but keep the prices up there hanging off the coattails of their past reputation. A perfect example of this is the curado G7 I recently purchased new. It was made in Malaysia. Right out of the box I could feel the gears. My Bass Pro reels are smoother and they are made in Korea. I sold that G7 in less than a week on ebay. With the curado G7 I was paying for an old reputation Shimano threw out the window with their made in Malaysia junk Curado. 2
Super User *Hootie Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 If a thirty dollar reel gets you on the water, and you're happy with it, by all means go for it. I am wise enough to know that sometimes that's the only way. I know I am truly blessed to be able to spend pretty much whatever I want on my tackle. Believe me, I am not gloating, I am truly grateful. For, there was a time when that surely was not the case. Hootie
Suspendingjerk Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 It's not so much the $30.00 reel as it is, who made that reel. Shimano makes a thirty dollar reel, the Sienna. It's more about who makes the reel. The big name companies have a reputation to protect. The"unknowns" don't. Make a boatload of thirty dollar reels and disappear. Happens all the time, and not just with fishing reels. Hootie You are absolutely correct. I mentioned you are paying for the QC and somewhat of a warranty.
IAY Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I cannot say I have 'outsmarted' the market. I am saying that floridafishinfool has a point, and we should pay attention to what he says. If it says made in China.. The whole thing is made and assembled in China. I don't know what you were getting at. I honestly hope you don't believe shimano buys certain parts from China and then assembles them in Japan along with Japan made parts. No...it doesn't. FTC says that you can put the "made" in trademark as long as 75% of the cost of manufacturing is incurred in a country.
Super User lmbfisherman Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 I cannot say I have 'outsmarted' the market. I am saying that floridafishinfool has a point, and we should pay attention to what he says. If it says made in China.. The whole thing is made and assembled in China. I don't know what you were getting at. I honestly hope you don't believe shimano buys certain parts from China and then assembles them in Japan along with Japan made parts. It's not that it's made in China it's that the brand name company has to uphold a certain quality control or they lose market share. The then said backed product would be better than a no name brand who will sell things with less quality control and not "back" their crap. Key is quality control and who builds it (brand).
Super User *Hootie Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 I don't know if a lot of you younger guys remember, but there was a time when "Made in Japan" was more of a warning than an attraction. Hootie
IAY Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I don't know if a lot of you younger guys remember, but there was a time when "Made in Japan" was more of a warning than an attraction. Hootie I studied enough economic history to know that, Japanese companies drove a lot of US ones out of jobs back in the days with some sneaky tactics
Suspendingjerk Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Hootie, one thing you are not considering is that the Chinese realize that a lot of people have low opinions of them. So what are the Chinese doing about it? For one, the Chinese are buying up name brand companies and buying their already established brand names and market shares and reputations. And for two, a lot of Chinese companies are getting up on their game to improve their products to earn an improved opinion of them and their products. And for me, Tokushima has done this with their top of the line spinning reels which I am now buying because they are trying to improve and I like the price for what I am getting. Simple as that. Shimano on the other hand is going backwards in this game. They are keeping their prices up there while they quietly have more and more of their products made cheaply in China, but keep the prices up there hanging off the coattails of their past reputation. The name 'fenwick' rings a bell with this post. I recently was in the market for a spinning rod and was seriously considering buying a Fenwick.. Until I ran across something on the Web about Fenwick being made in China. And the rods not being what they used to. Was a fly fishing forum to be exact. So I went with Loomis. A rod made in America. Sure many may prefer the Fenwick equivalent to the Loomis I choose, but I know my dollar was supporting a job here in America. What I am getting at (excuse my rambling, just got off night shift and have a good buzz going) is floridafishinfool is right. These company's are riding on their prior reputation and dishing out cheaper and cheaper made goods.
Super User lmbfisherman Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 I studied enough economic history to know that, Japanese companies drove a lot of US ones out of jobs back in the days with some sneaky tactics Definitely and China is more under handed imo. They aren't "truly" private, the government pulls a lot of weight.
Suspendingjerk Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 It's not that it's made in China it's that the brand name company has to uphold a certain quality control or they lose market share. The then said backed product would be better than a no name brand who will sell things with less quality control and not "back" their crap. Key is quality control and who builds it (brand).I have mentioned this in a previous post. What you aren't picking up on is what floridafishinfool is saying. If you shop around you can get the same quality. Mind you it doesn't carry the brand name, reputation, 'warranty'.
Suspendingjerk Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 No...it doesn't. FTC says that you can put the "made" in trademark as long as 75% of the cost of manufacturing is incurred in a country. And you honestly believe these humongous corporations aren't cutting costs by bypassing this "rule"? Don't you think it would be more beneficial to sales if they went ahead and stamped " made in Japan " on these products. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying here.
IAY Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Definitely and China is more under handed imo. They aren't "truly" private, the government pulls a lot of weight. I would say from my small amount of readings, that they are very very similar. The Ministry of International Trade and Industry (MITI) a government entity, organized all of the private companies in Japan, similar to how the government is interacting with Chinese companies for international trades.
Super User tomustang Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 Being 'made in china' means nothing. Some believe that it's associated with junk because there's products that come from there are junk, but still those same people also buy quality that is also made there that they don't even know of like good electronics, funishings, car parts etc. The same could be said for america, I've seen alot of junk pass by production floors and meet shelves, the level of QC dropped here but that doesn't matter because it's made here and it has to be better and people will still buy it since it has a usa sticker on it. Now I'm not saying china makes the best stuff or usa makes junk, but be informative of what you purchase and keep an open mind. 1
Super User F14A-B Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 I don't know if a lot of you younger guys remember, but there was a time when "Made in Japan" was more of a warning than an attraction. Hootie Yup, I remember a few things, Japanese cars became vogue in the 70's, why? Great cars, dependable, and long lasting. Nevermind great fuel mileage. America had a obligation after the unconditional surrender, we taught them a few things... 1
Super User lmbfisherman Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 I have mentioned this in a previous post. What you aren't picking up on is what floridafishinfool is saying. If you shop around you can get the same quality. Mind you it doesn't carry the brand name, reputation, 'warranty'. Yeah saw you post it afterwards. The key for me is the last part. I like peace of mind.
IAY Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 And you honestly believe these humongous corporations aren't cutting costs by bypassing this "rule"? Don't you think it would be more beneficial to sales if they went ahead and stamped " made in Japan " on these products. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying here. I do not believe they are trying to bypass the rules, because those companies rely on significant customer relations, which makes up significant part of its value, to throw that away by making illegal cost cutting procedures. I honestly don't care where things are made, as long as I am getting exceptional quality of products. I just want to say that the argument you and floridafishingfool make on how you can "shop" around, and get 30 dollars product that has equivalent performance as a 180 dollars one is simply unrealistic. 3
BadBassWV Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I do not believe they are trying to bypass the rules, because those companies rely on significant customer relations, which makes up significant part of its value, to throw that away by making illegal cost cutting procedures. I honestly don't care where things are made, as long as I am getting exceptional quality of products. I just want to say that the argument you and floridafishingfool make on how you can "shop" around, and get 30 dollars product that has equivalent performance as a 180 dollars one is simply unrealistic. Amen!!!!!!!
Super User *Hootie Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 Guys, you know what makes great fishing gear? This forum and others like it, mainly this one. We have these lively discussions and state what we think. You think the big companies don't read this stuff? We are allowed to say what we really see and really believe. The pros can't do that. They would lose their jobs. Who knows, had it not been for this forum and others like it, we may have been stuck with the Curado g series for a couple more years. While I may disagree with you and you may disagree with me, it's then up to the manufacturers, established and wannabes to sort it all out and give us a decent product. Thank you Glenn for giving us a soapbox. Now,"They better listen"! Hootie 2
Suspendingjerk Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 Guys, you know what makes great fishing gear? This forum and others like it, mainly this one. We have these lively discussions and state what we think. You think the big companies don't read this stuff? We are allowed to say what we really see and really believe. The pros can't do that. They would lose their jobs. Who knows, had it not been for this forum and others like it, we may have been stuck with the Curado g series for a couple more years. While I may disagree with you and you may disagree with me, it's then up to the manufacturers, established and wannabes to sort it all out and give us a decent product. Thank you Glenn for giving us a soapbox. Now,"They better listen"! Hootie This is why I love your posts hootie. And to think I heard irene singing at the end of a long tunnel... 1
FloridaFishinFool Posted February 15, 2015 Posted February 15, 2015 I just want to say that the argument you and floridafishingfool make on how you can "shop" around, and get 30 dollars product that has equivalent performance as a 180 dollars one is simply unrealistic. Actually it is not unrealistic. It is becoming the norm more than anything else. If you want to spend $180.00 on a $30.00 reel that it cost the manufacture to make that is up to you. But if I want to spend $30.00 on a $30.00 reel that has every bit the same performance as the reel you spent $180.00 then who is getting the better deal? That is my point. I simply choose to no longer spend on spent reputations. I have shimano stradic reels that cost $180.00 that give me less quality of performance than my $30.00 Tokushima. What some of you are not getting is that your $180.00 reel is simply artificially inflated to that price when the reality of it is it is just another $30.00 reel. I have experienced this myself. Recently I purchased a Shimano 201G7 and on the bottom of the reel foot it said "made in Malaysia" and right out of the box I could feel the gears meshing. I hate that with a passion. I sold this made in malaysia junk G7 in less than one week on ebay. Today I have replaced it with made in Korea Bass Pro reels that are super smooth right out of the box and have more features like both centrifugal and magnetic braking adjustable from the outside of the reel so when I am fishing I don't have to disassemble the reel to make an adjustment like the Shimano curado is designed. Reality shows me I can get the same performance of an artificially inflated reel price of $180.00 in a $30.00 reel. 1
Super User roadwarrior Posted February 15, 2015 Super User Posted February 15, 2015 And to think I heard irene singing at the end of a long tunnel... I think everyone participating in this thread has had an opportunity for "the last word". This would be a good place to end an interesting discussion... Good night Irene. 4
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