Bass But No Shad

[Keiran Beam]

So I fish small lakes around 100 to 1000 acres in size. I know where I live its too cold and the lakes are too small to hold a shad population. I have figured out the bass are feeding on mainly bluegill and yellow perch. I have been looking around online trying to find articles on how to locate bluegill and yellow perch. i don't seem to find out what to look for on my charts and what kind of depths and structure to look for according to the seasons. I would super appreciate if I could get some feedback on how to locate these bluegills and perch all year round to improve my bass fishing knowledge.

[Angry John]

I am in the same position but

I dont have electronics. The bass here eat trout and bluegill and perch. They seem to be a lot more nomadic and hold in deep pieces of structure. The bottom of local lakes are all bowl shaped and covered in weeds. If you figure it out let me know, as I am having a hard time as well.

[ward131]

Ya, no shad in Maine...Blue gill and white and yellow perch.  I find the white perch in schools in the deeper water. The yellow perch are in the weeds and the blue gill seem to like the rocks.  when I start to catch blue gill and white perch in a minnow trap, I Then throw lures that look like them. Seems to work.

[Smokinal]

Yes Sir. People in our area need to be careful of what we see on TV and what we read in the magazines. A lot of the location and forage talk really doesn't apply to us. Like when they talk about going into the backs of creeks, I'm smokin em in the deepest water I can find.

[Paul Roberts]

North and south (and natural and res) share more than they don't. Aquatic food chains are based in two places the planet over: littoral (vegetation) and limnetic (open water). In many if not most waters bluegills make use of both. Focus on water body structure and fine tune with forage info as you acquire it.

[Darren.]

Yup, different places, different food sources.

 

No biggie. Adapt, realize, as others have said, 

that TV and such is not necessarily your friend, 

and you will have a start.

 

I'd talk to "old-timers" or guides who may fish 

the locales you mention and ask them if they'd 

be willing to share secrets, or in the case of a 

guide, pay him/her for services and see what 

you can learn.

[HoosierHawgs]

I wouldn't say that's too small for shad. I fish a private 9 acre reservoir that has a large thriving shad population. I snagged a couple of 6"-8" shad throughout this season, so I know they are their.

[fishinphilly]

i don't have a boat but i fish small lakes with the same problem and over the past 2 years i started fishing for bluegill to find out what they were eating, if they were aggressive or dormant, but yellow perch are usually a different story because you can find bluegill at every depth but i tend to find that yellow perch are harder to come by bank fishing because they are usually caught in deeper depths so if I'm not watching for bluegill ill just walk and walk until i see minnows or anything that i might think the bass are feeding on to help me find a pattern and what to use

 

hope this helps, jim

[papajoe222]

Welcome to the board and this topic will spark some good discussion.

I echo the statement about your waters not being able to support shad.  Aside from that, there are likely two other types of forage the bass use that you didn't mention; minnows and crawfish.  Reguardless of the type of forage, remember that a bass is a hunter and will ambush it's prey a majority of the time.  It is also, primarily, a sight feeder. Keeping those two facts in mind, information about a specific forage's habits and movements is beneficial, but not essential in forming your game plan. 

Here is what I have come to observe about sunfish and perch and how bass relate to them.  Schooling bass will target perch if there isn't a sufficient minnow population to sustain their numbers and perch are a schooling species similar to crappie.  Bluegill and most other sunfish are a part of a bass' diet only if there isn't a population of other forage that is easier for them to swallow, or they are an opportune (easy) target.

If your observations are accurate, I would look for smaller bass to be roaming in schools that are following smaller perch and the larger bass to be feeding in the shallows where cover is present.  Notice I said feeding as their 'home teritory' could be deep or shallow. The forage they target most will be in the shallower cover.

[Bluebasser86]

The size of a body of water has little to do with it's ability to hold a shad population. We have some 100 acre lakes in this area that get shad so thick you could almost walk across them at times.

 

We have a lot of lakes with no shad too where the bass tend to focus on craws and gills. In those lakes it seems like the bass tend to prefer rocks or weeds a majority of the time. No yellow perch around here (no viable populations anyways) so I really have no idea how they act. IMO, bass in lakes with no shad are much easier to find, catch, and pattern. 

[Preytorien]

Here's a question....

 

I fish a lot of ponds too, but almost never see crawfish, or signs of crawfish......do you think they're still in there?

[ChrisWi]

Just remember, there's always some kind of forage in the lake like a baitfish, like a shiner.

[HoosierHawgs]

Here's a question....

 

I fish a lot of ponds too, but almost never see crawfish, or signs of crawfish......do you think they're still in there?

What kind of cover is there?

[RoLo]

Bass are opportunistic predators that eagerly seize bluegills & perch,

which makes it very difficult to distinguish between 'Preference' & ‘Availability’.

Given a choice, bass prefer soft-finned prey fish like shiners, dace, shad and minnows,

and a healthy waterbody will generally support most if not all of them.

 

Roger

[Logan S]

Baitfish species are different...But points, humps, drops, channels, flats, rocks, grass, stumps, trees, current, etc, etc, etc...All exist in some capacity everywhere bass live.  Obviously every lake doesn't have every single one of these, but they will all have some combination.  Use the physical things like structure/cover/etc as your starting point and work from there.  

 

 

As for the specific topic of yellow perch...The young-of-year perch (1"-3") will school up much like shad in larger bodies of water.  You can find these schools with your electronics just like the guys finding shad further south.  If there are smallmouth in the lake it's almost a guarantee that they won't be far away from these schools.  Can be fun pattern, there's a lake here where you can target smallies feeding on the perch schools every fall...Funny thing is that you usually catch some big adult perch feeding on the schools too .

[gulfcaptain]

We have shad in city park lakes as small as 2-3acres.  Some have glass minnows.  But regardless back to your point about trying to find the forage.  #1 if you have a depth sounder, where are most of the marks on the meter.(depth)  If you find the depth where most of the lakes population of fish (reguardless of type) is primarily located you can start at that depth and then look for other key area's that have points of interest in that depth.  If the main body of fish is in say 10ft, well I would look for areas of interest that are near or close to that (could be a rock pile, brush pile, edge of the old weed line, creekbed, hump, etc). Knowing the depth of the main body of fish will give you an idea of where to start.

[papajoe222]

Here's a question....

 

I fish a lot of ponds too, but almost never see crawfish, or signs of crawfish......do you think they're still in there?

It's a possibility, but there are only a few sure ways to find out. One of which is actually seeing them which you ovbiously haven't and the other is to look for an earthen shore where the burrow into for the winter.  You'll see the holes in the spring when the watter is clear and sometimes on the shoreline if the water level receeded over the winter.

Reguardless of whether the pond contains crawfish or not, craw imitations such as a jig and pig will still produce. I don't know why, I just know that, like a  plastic worm, it seems to produce anywhere bass live.

[Paul Roberts]

Here's a question....

 

I fish a lot of ponds too, but almost never see crawfish, or signs of crawfish......do you think they're still in there?

There are two families of crayfish, one being a burrower, the other living in "retreats" or "hides". Burrowers are more common in the south but there are N ones too. They overwinter in burrows, although I suspect in the N they may use lake bottoms. Retreaters live in rock, wood, vegetation and winter in the lake basin.

 

There are usually crayfish in most waters. But, how abundant and important they are to bass is an open question. I look for signs of them -burrows in banks and freshly cleaned out retreats- in spring at around 55F. I’ve not done this in ponds or lakeshores, but crays being night active I’ve surveyed trout streams for crays at night with a powerful light and wow! There can be an amazing number of them unbeknownst to day anglers.

 

Bass are primarily piscivorous -LM in particular- but crays are the next most common prey type.

[Megastink]

Bluegill are EVERYWHERE. Wanna find them? Just drop an earthworm on a hook over the boat.

I fish lakes that are panfish forage lakes here in Pa. Bluegill hang out the same places that bass do. Find bluegill, find bass and vice versa.

[RipzLipz]

Here's a question....

 

I fish a lot of ponds too, but almost never see crawfish, or signs of crawfish......do you think they're still in there?

Same thing in the strip pits - never see any crawfish or the mud "towers" on the surrounding land. Doesn't seem to affect the bass biting jigs after ice out.

To the OP, I agree with the approach that the bluegill will be near where you'd find the bass. Also, when the bluegill start bedding, be sure to fish around the beds in deeper water - the bass probably won't be far off. I see the bass occasionally roaming around and through the beds when the bluegill spawn is in full swing.

[RMcDuffee726]

Welcome to the North brotha.  I'm from New Hampshire and us New England fisherman have it much worse than every other bass fisherman.  Just need to learn and adapt.  Kinda sucks because there aren't too many things that apply to us on television shows and such.

[Megastink]

Welcome to the North brotha. I'm from New Hampshire and us New England fisherman have it much worse than every other bass fisherman. Just need to learn and adapt. Kinda sucks because there aren't too many things that apply to us on television shows and such.

Very true! When guys are fishing southern lakes and talk about school of shad and the shad spawn, I just roll my eyes. Sure, some lames up here have shad. Some might have alewives, some have smelt. But for the typical angler up north, we can't relate.

[HoosierHawgs]

Very true! When guys are fishing southern lakes and talk about school of shad and the shad spawn, I just roll my eyes. Sure, some lames up here have shad. Some might have alewives, some have smelt. But for the typical angler up north, we can't relate.

Plenty of shad here! I guess I'm getting it good living in Indiana :respect-059:  lol

[corn-on-the-rob]

Plenty of shad here! I guess I'm getting it good living in Indiana :respect-059:  lol

plenty in ohio too

[TorqueConverter]

Is a shad a type of bluegill or one of those brims I keep hearing about?  All the magazines keep telling me I need them to catch hogs and toads. but I'm just trying to catch bass?