And Here's Why Metal Ringed Guides Suck.

[new2BC4bass]

I saw a guide like that once and it wasn't from braid, it was from wire line and it was a friend of mine who got an entire spoon plug system. He got everything, a line counter reel, wire line, I mean everything except a rod, he had a rod that was used to troll for walleye and that is what he used for spoon plugging. He never noticed the guide until he went for walleye with another friend and they were rolling lead core, it didn't take but one strike for the line to break and that is when he noticed the guide. Other than that I never saw one as severe from any kind of line. In fact it looks as if some took a file to it and tried to smooth or cut the insert out, that guide would have been cutting line way before it got to that point and the 2 piece deal isn't cool either, I'd be mad at Abu Garcia.

 

I have to agree with you that any line (whether it be mono, fluro, hybrid, copoly, braid) used with a tip like that shouldn't last for more than a few casts.  Hard to believe all that damage was done by braid before noticing something was wrong.

 

I missed the 3rd guide from the tip when stringing 12# mono.  Within 15 minutes of continuous casting the first 4 feet of line was rougher than a cob and had worn a spiral groove in the rod's finish.  I'll be the first to admit I am not a very observant kind of guy.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The idea of a handle spliced to a blank isn't horrible. I've done it to achieve lengths and powers not readily available. The problem is the poor way it was done causing it to come apart. This could easily fall under "what you don't know won't hurt ya". If we hadn't seen this one example users of these rods would continue to recommend them. They still may. 

[Capt.Bob]

would you rather see those raving about this rod and suggesting it to others who know no more than those that think they have a quality rod go out and buy one also????? Be real, people need to see this to use better judgement when buying equipment, and although abu make quality items, they need to be called when they try and compete with junk playing the eye appeal game,,,,, I don't like the St. Croix imports nbecause they are not the quality of the USA built rods, but don't go to these cut corner components.....PERIOD! But for abu to offer this as quality rods is something they need to be called out on!!!

[BrianinMD]

The part about the blank which bothers me the most is the rods are advertised as a one piece. To see a rod advertised as a one piece when it is not to me is false advertisement. I am sure there is some loophole or such that allows this and they are not breaking the law but as a potential customer this raises questions to me.

[Maxximus Redneckus]

Its bonded so it isnt truley a 2 piece bein sold as.looks like someone on the assembly line broke a rod and since had the means to fix it did it.

[J Francho]

I'm Probably in the minority but am I the only one that doesn't really like threads like these...don't really know why, I just think there are better places to put negative reviews on products... kinda silly I geuss...

 

It's not a negative review, nor a review at all - that's a subjective document.  This is a fact.  The blank is two pieces glued together that came apart, and the tip top is badly grooved.  The rest is left to inference.  Maybe Scott can get back to us about what line and conditions the rod was used to result in that grooving.  I will say this, that's a pricey rod.  I've also noticed that some rods that are pricey aren't quite as sensitive as others of the same ilk.  I wonder if the two piece construction is the cause?  It's not completely relevant, since most rods over $50 have been sensitive enough for me.  Some are just more so - remarkably more so.

[S Hovanec]

65# Powerpro. This is his frog rod. Makes sense....lots of dirt to get deposited in the pores of the braid.

[J Francho]

Yep, does make sense. I've seen grooved Recoils from that as well.

[S Hovanec]

I find all kinds of interesting stuff working on rods. Put split EVA grips on a bunch of Kistlers for a guy this spring. When stripping the cork, I could see the remants of a blank label. On one rod, the cork came off clean enough to make out that it was a Rainshadow blank. I've heard rumors they were built on all kinds of different blanks, but I confirmed one of them.

[J Francho]

I once found a french fry inside a round reel, lol.

[.ghoti.]

That is an eye opener. I've replaced a lot of tip-tips over the years, but I've never seen one in as bad of condition as that one. It should have been replaced a long time ago. Hard to believe it got to that sorry state without the owner noticing.

 

As far the spliced handle section goes, custom builders have been doing exactly that for years. It's a way to get a blank for a specific application when none exists. This just a very poorly executed example. To simply assume that no other manufacturer would ever do such a thing is to do just that; simply assume.

[.ghoti.]

I once found a french fry inside a round reel, lol.

 I always liked hot sauce on french fries.

[FishTank]

Wow.  Looks like some heavy braid destroyed those guides but the two piece construction has me stumped.  Why would a rod manufacture make a rod this way?

[J Francho]

I always liked hot sauce on french fries.

It was actually a Quantum, lol.

[S Hovanec]

Why would a rod manufacture make a rod this way?

So they can just add a different tip section to achieve a different model.

[Michael F]

I once found a french fry inside a round reel, lol.

 

HAHAHA Are you serious?

[Michael F]

Im pretty shocked to see it those guides like that...

Even more surprised to see the blank like that...

[J Francho]

HAHAHA Are you serious?

Yep. The owner had no idea how it got there. It was a crinkle cut, IIRC.

[aavery2]

I will never buy or use a guide that doesn't have ceramic inserts, including Recoils.  I think they look cheap and I've seen too many with grooves.   I use micro guides to save weight, a size 5 will pass any leader knot you can tie.  

 

As for the blank, that's just disgusting.

Here is something you might find interesting. This is a copy of a reply from St. Croix Guys.

I sent an email out to St. Croix following the discussion we had last week regarding the REC “Recoil” guides being used on some of the high end rods like the Legend Extreme. One of the things I like about St. Croix is that they’ll take the time to respond to questions. And this time was no different.

I won’t post the entire response but here’s the stuff that counts…

“We have used these guides for 4 years. I have not seen 1 guide with any grooving or wear from braid.”

Zero warranty claims on grooved REC guides in 4 years. NADA.

He goes on to state that if anyone has a grooved St. Croix guide… he wants to see it. Beyond a few second hand rumor type statements of “I heard from this guy that bought one and his guides grooved from using braid” they’re not seeing anything of the kind in the warranty repair department or have heard about it from actual St. Croix owners at the customer service call desk.

If you have a grooved set of guides… bring it to a sports show or contact St. Croix directly. In their durability tests that have been ongoing for years they have been unable to damage the titanium guides with braided line. Period. In fact, after heavy use the titanium guides “polish” and get smoother… leading to longer casts and even better performance. But certainly NOT grooves.

So, that’s the scoop on that. The grooved Recoil guides claims don’t hold water.

I thought it was interesting, I have two rods with recoil guides, an NRX and a Legend Extreme, neither has had any issues to date. I have seen lots of pictures of damaged guides but have never been able to get my hands on one to look at them very close. Have you been able to get your hands on any damaged guides?

[Montanaro]

I have recoils on my ***...no issues and I love them.

[Jrob78]

Here is something you might find interesting. This is a copy of a reply from St. Croix Guys.

 

 

I have yet to feel any rod built with anything other than recoil guides to offer more sensitivity, more weight savings, or more durability!! They allow for the same blank to be "lighter weight, more sensitive, faster, and quicker than with any other guide.

 

 

My only experience with grooved Recoils is from pictures online on the rod building sites, I've never seen one in person.  If St. Croix says they've never had a grooved Recoil guide on any of their rods, that works for me.  If you guys like Recoils and have had good experiences with them, that's all that really matters.   Clearly the guides used in the op are very low quality and I shouldn't have grouped all metal guides together.  I know Recoils aren't the same as cheap stainless steel guides.

 

I'm just personally not a fan of non ceramic guides and feel that there are better options for the money.  The cost of Recoils is very comparable to titanium sic Fuji guides.  To me, they aren't even in the same class.  That's just my personal opinion though, not to be confused with fact.

[S Hovanec]

Croix and Loomis haven't had any grooving issues because they're using SiC tips. If they used the Recoil tips, i bet they would also groove.

As for the running guides grooving, I feel this is caused by the guide getting nicked by a harder material. It then creates a place for the line to catch, thus making it run in the same spot over and over.

[timsford]

I'm Probably in the minority but am I the only one that doesn't really like threads like these...don't really know why, I just think there are better places to put negative reviews on products... kinda silly I geuss...

Forums like bass resource are about the only source of good information on products out there. I dont care for brand bashing by people with no experience even using the things they ate bashing, or people who say this reel or rod is great or it sucks when they only held it in a store and never used it. But this thread is just trying to inform other fisherman FACTS about a rod. I personally have no problem with that. Where is the better place to inform people of something about a particular product. Personally ive never held an abu rod i liked. Thats my opinion though and if you love abu you are entitled to that. I am not loyal to any certain brand and i think people who are miss out on tons of great products. I own reels made by daiwa, lews, shimano, pinnacle, mitchell, and quantum. Rods by ***, daiwa, shimano, pinnacle, shakespeare, fenwick, and an okuma on the way. But if i saw pictures of any of those rods that looked like the one in this thread id never buy another. Thats my opinion too and while everyone on here is entitled to one, i dont think blind happiness is a good thing and that we should all try to inform others on here of good and bad in products. Not bashing you catch and grease so please dont take it that way

[Jason Penn]

If you tear apart my NRX and find it spliced like that, let me know as I will be returning it promptly.

 

sorry for clarification, i was speaking about imported rods.  i think most of them are built with 1 line doing sub-assembly on the handle section while the guides are being wrapped on another, then they just combine them to finish the rods 

[Master Bait'r]

Here is something you might find interesting. This is a copy of a reply from St. Croix Guys.

I sent an email out to St. Croix following the discussion we had last week regarding the REC “Recoil” guides being used on some of the high end rods like the Legend Extreme. One of the things I like about St. Croix is that they’ll take the time to respond to questions. And this time was no different.

I won’t post the entire response but here’s the stuff that counts…

“We have used these guides for 4 years. I have not seen 1 guide with any grooving or wear from braid.”

Zero warranty claims on grooved REC guides in 4 years. NADA.

He goes on to state that if anyone has a grooved St. Croix guide… he wants to see it. Beyond a few second hand rumor type statements of “I heard from this guy that bought one and his guides grooved from using braid” they’re not seeing anything of the kind in the warranty repair department or have heard about it from actual St. Croix owners at the customer service call desk.

If you have a grooved set of guides… bring it to a sports show or contact St. Croix directly. In their durability tests that have been ongoing for years they have been unable to damage the titanium guides with braided line. Period. In fact, after heavy use the titanium guides “polish” and get smoother… leading to longer casts and even better performance. But certainly NOT grooves.

So, that’s the scoop on that. The grooved Recoil guides claims don’t hold water.

I thought it was interesting, I have two rods with recoil guides, an NRX and a Legend Extreme, neither has had any issues to date. I have seen lots of pictures of damaged guides but have never been able to get my hands on one to look at them very close. Have you been able to get your hands on any damaged guides?

Thanks for that. As a metal guy, Titanium really is a fascinating material. I also LOVE recoils- I have an NRX and an *** Black with recoils and I have to say they are by far my favorite and I seek them out in a rod now. Nothing is as light and sensitive! Good to know they really are as durable as they seem like they would be. I was a little concerned about that given the old warnings about grooving but it makes total sense that Ti is simply too hard of a metal to be truly effected by braid.