dgsm98 Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Hello everyone, I'm new to these forums as well as fishing. I have fished for the past few years, but this is the year I've been really getting into it. Right now I have a Med/Hvy Fast action rod. When I was trying to use crankbait for the first time a few days ago, it was way too light and wouldn't cast anywhere. Now, I was using 12# line, I'll get to that in a moment, but I was just wondering if I should use a sinker for the crankbait or should i buy a ultra-light or light rod for crank baits. Now for my line. I have a spool of 6# line and 12# line. When I was setting my reel up, i first used the 6# line, but for some reason I do not know of, it got all tangled up because it was very, very loose off my reel. It wasn't firm and secured as it should be so it got built up into a big tangle. So I had to switch to the 12# line because it wasn't loose off my reel. Anyone know what I am doing wrong that caused the tangle? Thanks everyone Quote
Yeti Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Start here. I would bookmark that and read through it occasionally. The crankbait section, while not completely in depth is helpful. As far as answering your question, we need to know whether you are using a spinning or casting rod. I'm going to assume a baitcaster since you mentioned a big tangle. For your line, make sure you are using line that your reel is rated for. This should be on the packaging that came with it. Outside these ratings, the reel will perform suboptimally, similar to putting E85 in a Ferrari. It may go, but it won't be nearly as satisfying. 6 lb is a little light for crankbaits, especially for most baitcasters. I use at least 10lb for my cranks. 12 should work. Your issue appears to be your rod. Light crankbaits do not perform well on Medium Heavy (MH) or heavier rods. Your rod should give a rating on lure weights for it to cast. Those numbers aren't gospel, but they should give you a rough idea of what to be using. The other issue is your action. With a fast action, there is very little tip movement. Combine these factors with a light crankbait and you will have the situation you are describing. However, you should be able to at least cast a crankbait on your setup without getting a tangle. I don't know your exact situation with your setup or line, but my guess as to why the 6lb line refused to cooperate with your reel is that the reel was not designed for that light of line. The other possibility is that the line was stiffer than what you were used to, but at this point, I am just guessing. For casting your crankbait further, either use a crankbait that fits your rods specifications or get a new rod. Crankbait rods are usually moderate to moderate-fast action. I actually just received my Falcon Bucoo cranking rod today and asked a question about pitfalls with using cranking rods that you might find interesting. For very light crankbaits like the wood Rapalas, I use a medium fast spinning combo with 10lb test line. It works well for the lighter lures since it can handle lures all the way down to 1/8th of an ounce. As far as attaching weight to a crankbait, I know people have done Carolina rigs with crankbaits, but I have no idea how successful they have been with it. Personally, I would not recommend it. Hope this helped, and remember, I am by no means an expert, just someone who has done a lot of research on this site for crankbait information in the past month or so. Good luck and tight lines! 2 Quote
Super User Catch and Grease Posted August 13, 2014 Super User Posted August 13, 2014 Yeti hit the nail on the head, If you do happen to decide to buy a new rod for just cranks the berkly cherrywood HD is a good budget option they can be bought for only 25$. 1 Quote
dgsm98 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Posted August 13, 2014 Thanks Yeti, that explained a lot. The reel line weight is 6-17lbs, I think I may have put too much line on. For the rod, I just found out my lure weights, and thats going to help me out a lot. Probably going to buy an ultra-light rod soon just so i can actually feel the fight when really in. Thanks again. Quote
Yeti Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 What kind of cranks are you using? I would not recommend an ultralight rod for any bass cranking rod since it doesn't have the backbone to set the hook when a fish strikes. Using an ultralight with most crankbaits is going to lose you some fish. Unless you are using 1/16th or 1/8 oz lures frequently, an ultralight simply will not cut it. I have a couple ultralight rods for trout and panfish and the only cranks I put on there are Rebel Crickhoppers and the small Rapala Originals. While the fish may fight better on an ultralight, they are not good cranking rods. Sorry if that came off badly, but please do not crank on ultralights. It is not fun. Quote
dgsm98 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Posted August 13, 2014 Actually let me reword that, i ment i was going to get an ultra light rod not for cranking, but just to actually feel the fish. But for cranking, ill stick with my rod for now and buy lure weights that work with it. 1 Quote
Yeti Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 That is the general consensus. The moderate action allows for the fish to hook itself while still having enough backbone to really set the hook and keep it set. An ultralight will not do that for a crankbait. Diving crankbaits require a fairly long cast to get to depth and if you are using an ultralight, between your rod and the stretch in your line, there will hardly be any force to hook the fish. Nothing against ultralights in general. I've caught more fish on my ultralights than any other rod, but I would think twice before using them on bass. If I were to buy a budget cranking rod, I would look for something Medium Fast action since I have not found a good rod with a moderate action for less than $100. Not saying they aren't out there, but I haven't found them. Quote
boostr Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Check out the Fenwick Eagle MF. It's 60 bucks at Dicks. I have it in an 6'6" with a Lews SS1S 5:4:1 spooled with 12# mono. Works nice with the small and medium shallow cranks. Quote
Super User new2BC4bass Posted August 13, 2014 Super User Posted August 13, 2014 I'm going to assume a baitcaster since you mentioned a big tangle. For your line, make sure you are using line that your reel is rated for. This should be on the packaging that came with it. Outside these ratings, the reel will perform suboptimally, similar to putting E85 in a Ferrari. It may go, but it won't be nearly as satisfying. 6 lb is a little light for crankbaits, especially for most baitcasters. I use at least 10lb for my cranks. 12 should work. I don't believe this for a second. Line listed on a baitcast reel is for capacity references. Most list 12# and 14#. I have seen up to 16# listed quite often and down to 10# occasionally. If this were true the 6# and 8# I use on many of my reels would result in abysmal casting distances. Not so. I can cast a 3/16 oz. Shad Rap with 6# mono on the right reels and rods almost as far as I can toss a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait on many MH rods. I was out Monday with my tuned Curado 51E spooled with 8# Siege tossing a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait as far as I could the 7/8 oz. Rattletrap I had on a HF rod using 17# mono. I am more apt to let the line listing on the rod determine the line I select for the reel. I will agree with most of your other statements. I definitely feel he is overpowered for light crankbaits. The OP said his reel lists 6#-17#. This suggests a spinning or spincast reel although I don't know what reel would list that great a spread. That line listing is more apt to be found on a spinning rod. 1 Quote
Super User smalljaw67 Posted August 13, 2014 Super User Posted August 13, 2014 Actually let me reword that, i ment i was going to get an ultra light rod not for cranking, but just to actually feel the fish. But for cranking, ill stick with my rod for now and buy lure weights that work with it. What are you fishing for and are you catch and release or catch and keep? I ask because if you are going after bass or other fish that size and larger, the use of an ultra light isn't advised unless you intend to keep the fish you catch. It is summer, I watch a man catch a beautiful 4lb smallmouth using an ultra light rod and reel, it took him more than 20 minutes to land the fish and after he landed it he tried to revive the fish and then he left it go, it swam several yards away and then was floating on its side. The fish died from lactic acid build up, the water is warm and has less than optimal levels of oxygen which is stressful to begin with and then using under powered gear for the fish you are after means a long fight which is fun for the angler but certain death for the fish, if you keep them then fine but if you plan on releasing them then get the right tackle. If you are fishing for crappie and panfish then forget what I said. 1 Quote
Yeti Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 I don't believe this for a second. Line listed on a baitcast reel is for capacity references. Most list 12# and 14#. I have seen up to 16# listed quite often and down to 10# occasionally. If this were true the 6# and 8# I use on many of my reels would result in abysmal casting distances. Not so. I can cast a 3/16 oz. Shad Rap with 6# mono on the right reels and rods almost as far as I can toss a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait on many MH rods. I was out Monday with my tuned Curado 51E spooled with 8# Siege tossing a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait as far as I could the 7/8 oz. Rattletrap I had on a HF rod using 17# mono. I am more apt to let the line listing on the rod determine the line I select for the reel. I will agree with most of your other statements. I definitely feel he is overpowered for light crankbaits. The OP said his reel lists 6#-17#. This suggests a spinning or spincast reel although I don't know what reel would list that great a spread. That line listing is more apt to be found on a spinning rod. Most of my spinning reels list line capacity for three line weights and lengths of line. I don't think that using 6# will limit casting distance assuming you are already familiar with the equipment. Quite the opposite, since we all know lighter line generally means better casting distance. The point I was trying to imply without coming across as derogatory to dgsm98 was that it may have been user error with the spooling or use of the reel. I think what happened here was that he either A) spooled on too much line (something I have done myself when I was learning) and the line began to dig or B )he wasn't using proper technique with casting. Honestly, I doubt the line had much to do with the tangles. I think lure weight and rod power had everything to do with it. However, I wanted to try and hit this problem from all possible angles, even the unlikely ones. Oh, and listen to smalljaw on the ultralight gear. I had never even considered the possibility of wearing a fish out that much and killing it. Quote
Super User Catch and Grease Posted August 13, 2014 Super User Posted August 13, 2014 20 minutes to reel in a 4lb small mouth... That's just dumb, that's like ultra-ultralight bass tackle... It shouldn't take you longer than a minute to reel In a bass really unless your long lining or something crazy... 1 Quote
Super User new2BC4bass Posted August 14, 2014 Super User Posted August 14, 2014 20 minutes to reel in a 4lb small mouth... That's just dumb, that's like ultra-ultralight bass tackle... It shouldn't take you longer than a minute to reel In a bass really unless your long lining or something crazy... 20 minutes is too long, but one minute translates to fishing like a pro. Might as well put skis on the fishes fins. Was in Florida for the first 2 weeks of June. Last evening of fishing I caught a 6.2 pound Largemouth on a Falcon MH using 40# braid. I couldn't land it in a minute even though I was putting a fair amount of pressure on her knowing she wasn't going to break the line, nor likely to pull the hook out. It was a 1/2 oz. spinnerbait. Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted August 14, 2014 Super User Posted August 14, 2014 I don't use a UL but I do use a light with a size 25 supreme, can't think of any 4# fish that would take 20 minutes to land. I use this set up for peacock bass in ponds down here, a 4# peacock is great fun, but not close to 20 minutes. Quote
Super User smalljaw67 Posted August 14, 2014 Super User Posted August 14, 2014 I don't use a UL but I do use a light with a size 25 supreme, can't think of any 4# fish that would take 20 minutes to land. I use this set up for peacock bass in ponds down here, a 4# peacock is great fun, but not close to 20 minutes. A 4lb smallmouth in a river in current hooked with a small 1/16oz in-line spinner on 4lb test mono took the gentleman every bit of 20 minutes to land. I watched it and when I say an ultra light rod I'm talking a 4.5' rod rated 1/64oz to 1/8oz and big bluegill will put a strain on the rod the man was using. I don't exaggerate, I watched it happen and the guy told me he wanted to actually fight a fish but didn't realize our river smallmouth often exceed 5lbs which he admitted he was totally unprepared for. If you never hooked a 4lb smallmouth in a river in a section with heavy current I would suggest you try it, it is fun and fights on MH tackle can take 3 to 4 minutes depending on where the fish hit ans how long the cast was. Rods rated to 1/4oz are considered light action here, ultra lights don't exceed 1/8oz lure rating or 4lb line. It may sound unbelievable to some of you but it is very, very true. My lightest set up is a medium power rod with 6lb line and I use if for small plastics and small jigs fished in slack water behind islands and in slow deep stretches because I fear that a large smallmouth get me in current on that set up and I won't be able to land it quick enough to ensure it lives, in cold water it isn't a big problem but in summer it is a huge problem and I hate to see under powered tackle being used to target a species that commands larger tackle. I can also tell you our river is in trouble, it is now all catch and release with no tournaments and a closed season during the spawn, there were several years in which drought and floods along with disease from farm run off that wiped out several year classes of fish so the population took a big hit and as a result the fish are getting big with limited competition for food. In 1990 a 20" smallmouth was just around 4lbs, now they are close to 5 with some going over, 17" fish barely a pound are now 3lb, and it isn't uncommon to catch a dozen fish in a day in the 4lb to 5lb class, once a rarity now happens all the time, it used to be a numbers fishery with cold water being the time to get a big fish to know getting big fish is a regular deal. I tell you this because it will take even a seasoned angler a good amount of time using ultra light gear to bring in a big female hooked in current on 4lb line, let alone a trout angler fishing the river for bass for the first time. Quote
Super User Catch and Grease Posted August 14, 2014 Super User Posted August 14, 2014 A 4lb smallmouth in a river in current hooked with a small 1/16oz in-line spinner on 4lb test mono took the gentleman every bit of 20 minutes to land. I watched it and when I say an ultra light rod I'm talking a 4.5' rod rated 1/64oz to 1/8oz and big bluegill will put a strain on the rod the man was using. I don't exaggerate, I watched it happen and the guy told me he wanted to actually fight a fish but didn't realize our river smallmouth often exceed 5lbs which he admitted he was totally unprepared for. If you never hooked a 4lb smallmouth in a river in a section with heavy current I would suggest you try it, it is fun and fights on MH tackle can take 3 to 4 minutes depending on where the fish hit ans how long the cast was. Rods rated to 1/4oz are considered light action here, ultra lights don't exceed 1/8oz lure rating or 4lb line. It may sound unbelievable to some of you but it is very, very true. My lightest set up is a medium power rod with 6lb line and I use if for small plastics and small jigs fished in slack water behind islands and in slow deep stretches because I fear that a large smallmouth get me in current on that set up and I won't be able to land it quick enough to ensure it lives, in cold water it isn't a big problem but in summer it is a huge problem and I hate to see under powered tackle being used to target a species that commands larger tackle. I can also tell you our river is in trouble, it is now all catch and release with no tournaments and a closed season during the spawn, there were several years in which drought and floods along with disease from farm run off that wiped out several year classes of fish so the population took a big hit and as a result the fish are getting big with limited competition for food. In 1990 a 20" smallmouth was just around 4lbs, now they are close to 5 with some going over, 17" fish barely a pound are now 3lb, and it isn't uncommon to catch a dozen fish in a day in the 4lb to 5lb class, once a rarity now happens all the time, it used to be a numbers fishery with cold water being the time to get a big fish to know getting big fish is a regular deal. I tell you this because it will take even a seasoned angler a good amount of time using ultra light gear to bring in a big female hooked in current on 4lb line, let alone a trout angler fishing the river for bass for the first time. Sorry if it came out wrong but I wasn't calling you a liar, I'm just saying that it shouldn't take you 20 minutes to reel in a bass... I just think its dumb If your purposely catching smallmouth on a setup that takes you 20 minutes to land. Just my opinion. And smallmouth are indeed great fighters... I've only caught a handful but the 2lb one I caught made me think I had a big ole' largemouth Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted August 14, 2014 Super User Posted August 14, 2014 I grew up fishing Lake St Clair and the Detroit River catching SMB for 50 years before moving to Florida, I'm aware of how they fight, they're fun. Quote
Super User F14A-B Posted August 14, 2014 Super User Posted August 14, 2014 I can't see much of a issue with fighting/ playing a fish for sport, it may cause stress,...however long it takes? Is up to the Fisherman, and or the fish. I don't believe it is Dumb, though. 1 Quote
Super User Catch and Grease Posted August 14, 2014 Super User Posted August 14, 2014 Dumb might not be the ideal word, and I'm talking about the extremes, like a 20minute small mouth fight. I love a good largemouth on light tackle! Quote
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