Brian Needham Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 there are crooked people and crooked cops/GW/DNR. don't let a bad apple ruin the bunch. We just want to fish, they just want to do thier job and go home (like the rest of us) sure there are picky game wardens and cool game wardens. There are many obscure rules/regs to being on the water...... make sure you read your states manual.
Super User K_Mac Posted April 8, 2014 Super User Posted April 8, 2014 iabass8, this topic has nothing to do with fishing rights. The Officers tools to search conveyance's does not interfere with the act of a LAW OBIDING citizen in the sportsman like act of angling. Board members complaining that a few fleeting moments of their time are being taken just proves my constantly made point that today in American society, men are pansies. Every stinking one of us has the obligation given to you by God, to be a part of society. That includes being cooperative with the people whose duty it is to maintain the public good. The only anglers who fear their rights are being yanked from them are those who have a baggie ofweed under the seat. It is always fascinating to see how any discussion of this nature always swings quickly to the extremes. I too wish there were more DNR agents out there to enforce the law, and do not mind being stopped and having a thorough check done of my boat to assure compliance with the law. I would also agree that those who protect and serve are worthy of our respect. That is not to say that we don't need to be vigilant that in our efforts to protect the "greater good" we don't allow individual freedoms to be infringed. There are many of us who don't have a bag of weed in our vehicles that have a healthy fear of too much government involvement in our personal lives. How "too much" is defined is worthy of discussion, whether it is in fishing regulation and enforcement or what kind of fat is allowed in our food. It all comes down to the principle of the whole issue. If we keep on giving a inch before you know it all your rights will be gone. It's all a money making propaganda. I think it is complete bull for a GW or Conservation Officer to just stop you and check you for your papers. If you have done nothing wrong why are they harassing you? What gives them the authority to harass us for no reason? I can tell you this, we give them the authority because we don't challenge them (legally not violently people) enough. He who does not fight for his/her rights will lose them". There is plenty of good work for them to do instead of harassing people to hit their quota on tickets. I know people are going, wait there is no quotas anymore. I call BS, if you are not producing (tickets) then your bosses think you are not doing your job. So you are left fighting tooth and nail to get every ticket you can out of someone or at least one big ticket to show that you are working. I sit back and watch the GW/CO where I fish hiding with binoculars waiting to watch someone cast a line then get all excited (Oh my gosh he is fishing better go check his papers) as they fly over and check them for everything they can think of. It's annoying when you are trying to fish a tournament and have them come check you for all your stuff (fire extinguisher, whistle, life vest, throwable cushion, license, boat registration, and soon boaters safety course certificate). Then the next time you’re out they do it all over again, they get a attitude when you remind them they checked you the last 3 time you been out. As soon as those requirements don't produce they will be looking for the next thing you must carry. I have a idea do some research, observe some people, wait for a crime to be committed, wait for someone to report something. Don't just play the lazy numbers game and get a ticket for every 20 people you harass. We as Americans have RIGHTS. I feel we are just content that we are allowed to fish and don't want to mess that up so we don't question/ or challenge enough. I wonder where all the money from all these license, tickets, permits, and taxes are going? If you factor all that money (and it is a HUGE number) I can guarantee you this it's being spent on some pretty disappointing ish. Sure some of it is going to a wonderful cause but I bet more than half is not. These greedy sons-of-gun are still hungry and thinking of the next great plan to get more. Just my 2 cents IMO J-
0119 Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Many of you guys prove my point. For you it's all Me Me what about me. My rights My privacy. It's the I'm more important mentality your father's didn't have that made them men. Something most aren't any more. No wonder the sovereign citizen movement is growing by leaps and bounds. It's all about 'me' not your obligation to society or the simple ground rules your God and maker has put down. What makes 'me' happy is all that matters. 1
Super User K_Mac Posted April 8, 2014 Super User Posted April 8, 2014 0119 your superior attitude does nothing to make your point. Real men can, and will challenge your beliefs about obligations and authority. Get over it. 1
Super User buzzed bait Posted April 8, 2014 Super User Posted April 8, 2014 Many of you guys prove my point. For you it's all Me Me what about me. My rights My privacy. It's the I'm more important mentality your father's didn't have that made them men. Something most aren't any more. No wonder the sovereign citizen movement is growing by leaps and bounds. It's all about 'me' not your obligation to society or the simple ground rules your God and maker has put down. What makes 'me' happy is all that matters. pretty close minded and foolish approach to say that ONE generation is somehow a universe removed from another..... Perhaps you should review the constitution that is now 230+ years strong. it clearly outlines the need for self governance and stresses the importance of a balance of power..... and to say it is selfish to be concerned with my rights or my privacy, well then i'd be fairly proud to be selfish sir...... read below, just look at it through a different lens for a minute to understand that what impacts 1 impacts all..... 'the rights of everyman are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened" - JFK 1
0119 Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Yet more proof. because no one's rights were infringed on. You, no one here knows what the truth of the matter really was. And, there was no right involved. Signing the license is acknowledging you understand it's a privilege, one that can be removed and one with stipulations. 1
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Yet more proof. because no one's rights were infringed on. You, no one here knows what the truth of the matter really was. And, there was no right involved. Signing the license is acknowledging you understand it's a privilege, one that can be removed and one with stipulations. Once again they took our "fathers" right to fish and changed it into a privilege... Yeah, I bet our fathers (as you referred to them) would just sit around and except that. I myself have never had any illegal issues with the CO/GW and never plan too. That being said we don't need any more officers because that just means a bigger fines for petty stuff or some other new money making citation, to pay their salaries! We can and should police our own waters and lands, instead of having someone do it for us. I am not saying that CO/GW shouldn't exist but they should change the ways they do things. I am all for calling the authorities when you see something worth reporting, just not being harassed for doing nothing just because they can. We should all be on the same team and most sportsman wants what’s best for the resource. We shouldn’t have to give up rights in order for justice to happen. J- 1
Super User Lund Explorer Posted April 8, 2014 Super User Posted April 8, 2014 Once again they took our "fathers" right to fish and changed it into a privilege... Yeah, I bet our fathers (as you referred to them) would just sit around and except that. I myself have never had any illegal issues with the CO/GW and never plan too. That being said we don't need any more officers because that just means a bigger fines for petty stuff or some other new money making citation, to pay their salaries! We can and should police our own waters and lands, instead of having someone do it for us. I am not saying that CO/GW shouldn't exist but they should change the ways they do things. I am all for calling the authorities when you see something worth reporting, just not being harassed for doing nothing just because they can. We should all be on the same team and most sportsman wants what’s best for the resource. We shouldn’t have to give up rights in order for justice to happen. J- Your argument would carry a little weight if you provide some wee shred of proof, such as who "they" are, and when they "took" away your rights. It was quite simple to see that a resident of the State of Virginia never, I'll repeat that, NEVER, had the "right" to fish until the adoption of Article XI, Section 4 of your state's constitution. So did this group called THEY, take it away after that point? You may also want to read Section 2 of that article as it clearly states a viewpoint completely different than yours.
hatrix Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Many of you guys prove my point. For you it's all Me Me what about me. My rights My privacy. It's the I'm more important mentality your father's didn't have that made them men. Something most aren't any more. No wonder the sovereign citizen movement is growing by leaps and bounds. It's all about 'me' not your obligation to society or the simple ground rules your God and maker has put down. What makes 'me' happy is all that matters. It is not ME ME ME. People use them self as a example and talk in the first person. These people are actually standing up for everyone and that includes you even if you don't like them for some reason. Someone has to take a stand against things and be the voice of many no matter what the issue is. To many nowadays and just contempt to let things be even if they know its wrong. They just let it slide or look the other way.
0119 Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 But the stand isn't for any reason except petty selfishness. It still stands that it's a privilege you agreed to when you accepted and got a license. If you don't like the taxation........ get the heck out. Leave. Find a place that better suits your selfish needs.
Missourifishin Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 I'm on a first name basis with the conservation agents in both my home county, and the county I currently reside in. I have a lot of respect for them and the job they do. Usually they check my license early in the year. And then, since they know me, they don't ask me for it again for the rest of the year, and any future encounters I have with them are friendly conversations. If they ever asked nicely to search my truck, I would probably hand them the keys and tell them to go ahead as long as I could keep fishing while they do That being said, I think our founding fathers would be appalled that some people believe we should accept authority just because, and that we should not be concerned with our rights. Here are a couple of quote from Thomas Jefferson: 1. "A Bill Of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference." 2. "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I did not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but they tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." Oh, and while searching for the exact wording on those, I stumbled upon a third one, which might be the MOST IMPORTANT ONE FOR THIS TOPIC 3. "I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend." 1
Super User K_Mac Posted April 8, 2014 Super User Posted April 8, 2014 But the stand isn't for any reason except petty selfishness. It still stands that it's a privilege you agreed to when you accepted and got a license. If you don't like the taxation........ get the heck out. Leave. Find a place that better suits your selfish needs. I can accept the passion of the youngsters even if I disagree with them on this topic. Your response, whether you understand it or not, is completely self-serving. Do you honestly think that because someone challenges the status quo or questions authority that they are somehow less American than you?? There are many things I disagree with in our system of government, taxation being one of the most abused powers in my opinion. Many have fought and died for our right to say and think what we want. If you do not like that free exchange of ideas, maybe it is you who needs to find somewhere else to go where speech is more tightly regulated. 2
Brian Needham Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 I think this thread is about to set with the sun... 1
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 Your argument would carry a little weight if you provide some wee shred of proof, such as who "they" are, and when they "took" away your rights. It was quite simple to see that a resident of the State of Virginia never, I'll repeat that, NEVER, had the "right" to fish until the adoption of Article XI, Section 4 of your state's constitution. So did this group called THEY, take it away after that point? You may also want to read Section 2 of that article as it clearly states a viewpoint completely different than yours. It all started with a mandatory fishing license back in the early 1900's when fishing licenses became required. The state constitution talks nothing about having the right to fish only if you have a fishing license. All those requirements happened after the fact. That is when it became a privilege and not a right. My whole point is actually a question. When is enough, enough? J- 1
Super User Lund Explorer Posted April 8, 2014 Super User Posted April 8, 2014 It all started with a mandatory fishing license back in the early 1900's when fishing licenses became required. The state constitution talks nothing about having the right to fish only if you have a fishing license. All those requirements happened after the fact. That is when it became a privilege and not a right. My whole point is actually a question. When is enough, enough? J- In other words, your rights were taken away once you had to pay for it? Virginia's constitution was adopted in 1776. Article XI clearly states that it is the governments duty to protect the natural resources (fish included I suppose) for the benefit of all it's residents. Article XI, Section 4 was not adopted until 2001. Regardless, a right is given to the people, by the people. The mere fact that your state or any other has charged a license fee to fund the work required by the constitution doesn't take away your specific right. To say so, then you lost the right to drive on smooth roads the minute they came up with a gas tax!
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 In other words, your rights were taken away once you had to pay for it? Virginia's constitution was adopted in 1776. Article XI clearly states that it is the governments duty to protect the natural resources (fish included I suppose) for the benefit of all it's residents. Article XI, Section 4 was not adopted until 2001. Regardless, a right is given to the people, by the people. The mere fact that your state or any other has charged a license fee to fund the work required by the constitution doesn't take away your specific right. To say so, then you lost the right to drive on smooth roads the minute they came up with a gas tax! No the rights you give up are the rights to travel unmolested. Cops are not allowed to walk up to you and search you for no reason at all. But CO/GW can they can search you at will and invade your privacy just because you are in the act of fishing. What makes that right? We might as well be in Germany with our papers in hand ready to show it at will on command. Paying for the license is not the problem its what you are agreeing to by doing so! J 1
0119 Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 And still the simple fact remains. No one right to fish was lost or infringed upon. It's like complaining about your radiator when you have a flat tire. If an officer and its an if, had searched a conveyance, it did not stop the o.p.'s act of fishing. Besides his right was voluntarily waived as was yours when you accepted the license you requested.
DelfiBoyz_One_and_Only Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 And still the simple fact remains. No one right to fish was lost or infringed upon. It's like complaining about your radiator when you have a flat tire. If an officer and its an if, had searched a conveyance, it did not stop the o.p.'s act of fishing. Besides his right was voluntarily waived as was yours when you accepted the license you requested. Correct it was forfeited by wanting to have the privilege to fish. Which brings me back to square one, giving up or as you put it waiving my right just to be able to fish. It's a principal thing. I have given MHO on the topic there isn't any need for me to keep beating a dead horse over it. Just my two cents all take it how you will. Good discussion all thanks for giving me time to vent. J
The Commodore Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 It's the same with a concealed weapons license.
wisconsin heat Posted April 8, 2014 Posted April 8, 2014 And still the simple fact remains. No one right to fish was lost or infringed upon. It's like complaining about your radiator when you have a flat tire. If an officer and its an if, had searched a conveyance, it did not stop the o.p.'s act of fishing. Besides his right was voluntarily waived as was yours when you accepted the license you requested. I may be wrong, but I believe you are misinterpreting the title of the thread. It would be easier to understand if worded this way: "Giving up your rights just to fish." or something along those lines. his rights to fish weren't infringed, but the belief is that his rights are infringed because he fished.
EvanT123 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Posted April 9, 2014 Well this thread has taken quite a few turns. But as stated just above the point of the thread was the fact that it was new to me that I had given up some rights in order to fish. This is not something explained when one purchases a fishing license. Since I don't hunt and practice c/r only using artificial baits maybe it was on me to read the fish and game hand book. I don't really care either way since like stated before I have nothing to hide. However I thought it was worth noting and posting about since many of us are returning to fishing with the nicer weather upon us and that hopefully someone anyone would think twice before doing something illegal. Also I would hope but maybe not always the case that most LEO would have the commen sense, experience and intuition to excuse my pun tell when something is fishy and not inconvience people just out for a good time and not breaking law. 1
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