Are Largemouth Bass Line Shy?

[Bass Menace]

Darn... didn't think of that QnS! Thanks...

[primetime]

I believe that there is no Right or Wrong Answer to this question. IMO, Confidence is the most important part of fishing, and if you are not confident fishing braid without a leader, than keep doing what you are doing. Some Guys Love High Viz Lines, some guys hate them.....

 

I talk to hundreds of fisherman weekly, and line is by far the most debated topic when someone asks me suggestions for tackle for a tournament, or for a fishing trip in local waters....

 

I like tying to Braid Directly when Flipping heavy cover & I use 40-65lb Braid, and I have confidence in Green, or darker shades of braid since it is not getting a leader...However, If I am fishing near sharp shells or rocks, docks, hard bottoms etc, I often use a leader that is clear and I personally like Yo-zuri Hybrid or any copolymer since it gives me better knot strength than Mono, and 20lb test is super strong and I rarely have break offs like I used to have with straight fluorocarbon...

 

I only like Fluorocarbon if I am fishing it as a casting main line, so I usually throw crankbaits and jerkbaits on 12-14lb fluoro so I only have to tie one knot. Maybe I don't tie the best knots in the world, but I have had fluoro knots break when tied to braid in Cold weather or from setting the hook too hard out of habit. I don't beleieve any line is invisible, and I always color my line with sharpies based on the color of the water I am fishing, and I may change the color of the last yard or two several times daily, and I always try to fish without a leader for one simple reason.....Less Knots equall less breakoffs for me, and more confidence fighting fish....I know guys who re-tie every half hour or after each fish, but I am not that patient. I love Mono as a leader for Topwaters only because of action, and braid by itself often gets tangled with topwater lures like a spook, so I will go with a heavy Mono leader and when fishing Topwater, Spinnerbaits, and reaction strike baits, I don't think line diameter matters much.

 

However, If I am finesse fishing "Pressured or spooked fish" I have found that on slow presentations like slow rolling a worm, or jig along the bottom, drop shots, split shot rigs...I try to go as light as possible with spinning gear, and I find that Clear berkley Fireline is perfect for a superline without a leader, or if I am really needing a strike, I will go straight 6lb Mono on a 4" worm or fluke without a weight, and I like Mono for the fact that it sinks slower and keeps my bait in the strike zone longer....

 

I guess my feeling is this....There are no wrong or right anwers but I think the most important aspect of line is making sure you have the right line that gives you the confidence to Land fish since often times landing a big Bass is harder than getting them to strike.......I love Suffix 832, Berkley Crystal for Spinning rods, and Yozuri Hybrid copolymer for heavy line, and straight mono or Fluoro on a few rods if I need to get a crank to dive deeper, so its more about the presentation then line shy. 

[RoLo]

I noticed an increase in getting fish to eat in the saltwater world by dowsizing the leader many times with snook, reds, trout and tarpon. Now i was in the gulf and the water was very clear. However, was it that my lure had a slightly different action with the smaller line? Or was it the fish could see the leader? I dunno. But even with live bait i noticed a difference with lighter line and smaller hooks (especially with live bait)

Have i noticed this with bass? No i havent. I have found that downsizing baits can and does have an impact in various water and pressure conditions

 

Predatory fish are all basically alike, they're all opportunists bent on surviving.

In saltwater, we trolled umbrella rigs a great deal for bluefish, striped bass & weakfish (weakfish is the northern variety of spotted seatrout).

I've tried all combinations of umbrella wire, tube leaders, hooks, surgical tubing & colors. I can't say for certain

that I've ever noticed any difference in success between heavy-wire umbrellas & light-wire umbrellas,

or between heavy tube leaders & light leaders (except that light leaders are more prone to intermingling)

 

Things that did make a noticeable difference were the method of threading surge tubes onto the hook,

adding a barrel-swivel to each umbrella arm and employing the correct style long-shank hook. Above all else, 

the running depth of the umbrella rig was by far the most critical element of success, certainly not the color or diameter of the leaders.

I'm pretty sure I could've gotten away with drop-leaders made of Amusement Park cable,

attached to an umbrella rig with spokes as thick as octopus tentacles, but that would've created too much water resistance 

 

Roger

[RivasIsland]

I prefer to match the color line to the color water I fish, but I have caught bass on all types of line.

[PondHunter]

One of the main reasons I use a leader is to prevent sunlight from "piping" down through the line all the way to the lure. A fish may not be able to see your line by itself, but if it's lit up like a glow stick they will. Obviously this doesn't apply to braid.

 

I have caught Bass in Minnesota on a guided trip using those cheap leaders that are silver and highly visible. On my home waters, it's so clear that using FC is a huge advantage, so it just depends on the conditions you're in as to whether or not you prefer a leader. I use them all the time because it takes that one variable out of the equation.

 

My Flippin' Stick uses Braid only, as the fish usually strike so quick i'm not sure they even see much of the lure, much less the line! On my UL outfits, where I use 4lb test, I just retie a 3ft section of the same line using a blood knot,  on like a leader to prevent the light from piping down the line.

[Bass Commander]

I caught my personal best on Power pro 30# braid tied directly to a super spook. I was walking the dog up against some lily pads and she nailed it. However I just don't know if bass care or not so nowadays I like to use a flourocarbon leader just in case.

[WRB]

Well lets talk about the Classic and line used by the Sunday Elite anglers; no braid they all used FC line.

The reason, no weed beds, no reason to use braid.

This should tell you something or too stuburn to consider the facts.

A fast moving lure like a crankbait or school of A-rigged swimmers, the bass focus on the lures, line is secondary. Slower moving underwater lures bass may be very critical of line and wary enough to avoid striking. Depends on activity levels and school behavior.

Done with this topic, good fishing.

Tom

[A-Jay]

   My fishing line “arsenal” consists of  braid & mono.  Whether the braid or mono is used separately or braid with a leader depends on several different situations and techniques all of which have been thoroughly discussed in this thread or somewhere else on the forum.

 

 As for if or when a bass can see my line or if they even care for me if strictly determined by results.

Initially, I will select a line to use that once the very biggest fish I hope to land strikes, I have the very best chance of landing.   But realizing that I have to get bit first, I will modify my presentation until I’m getting bit.  After which I have found my answer.

 

So until there is a line that has the knot strength of mono, the sensitivity and direct hook sets of braid and the stealth and abrasion resistance properties of fluorocarbon, I am resigned to the fact that there will always be some compromise.

 

A-Jay

[FrogFreak]

I like to keep it simple.

 

Mono when I want some stretch (poppers, cranks)

Braid at all other times.

 

I'm pretty lazy when fishing so I like the fact that braid is easy. If I feel I should, I will use a FC leater but really, I don't think you need to.

 

I do like using heavy braid on my spinning outfits because they don't bite into the spool as often. Yes, braid is expensive but I can use it forever!

 

It's hard to prove a negative. If you fish FC and Braid and can actually somehow get the same exact conditions, then maybe you could prove this. Otherwise, I'm going to stick with a simple setup.

 

Iif you're worried about braid slipping out of your line tie, superglue the gap shut once and you are good to go. Also, leave a tag end on your polymar knot. Oh, that's another great thing about keeping it simple, I don't have to learn and remember a bunch of different knots.

[Scott F]

Well lets talk about the Classic and line used by the Sunday Elite anglers; no braid they all used FC line.

The reason, no weed beds, no reason to use braid.

This should tell you something or too stuburn to consider the facts.

A fast moving lure like a crankbait or school of A-rigged swimmers, the bass focus on the lures, line is secondary. Slower moving underwater lures bass may be very critical of line and wary enough to avoid striking. Depends on activity levels and school behavior.

Done with this topic, good fishing.

Tom

 

You are still applying human logic and reasoning to a largemouth bass. Bass do not have the mental capacity to figure out the connection between line and something they should not eat. As far as "facts" are concerned, the fact is, FC fishing line is not invisible. Just because pro fishermen did not use braided line in a tournament is not unquestionable evidence that largemouth bass are line shy. The almighty KVD himself still frequently states that FC lines have low stretch.That alone should be evidence that the pros, even the best of them don't know everything and cannot be relied upon to be the the basis of what is a fact. 

[Zach Dunham]

You are still applying human logic and reasoning to a largemouth bass. Bass do not have the mental capacity to figure out the connection between line and something they should not eat. As far as "facts" are concerned, the fact is, FC fishing line is not invisible. Just because pro fishermen did not use braided line in a tournament is not unquestionable evidence that largemouth bass are line shy. The almighty KVD himself still frequently states that FC lines have low stretch.That alone should be evidence that the pros, even the best of them don't know everything and cannot be relied upon to be the the basis of what is a fact. 

 

He clearly said the line is secondary. He means the line doesn't matter as much as people think. The reason they don't use braid while cranking is partly because of stretch but it is also partly due to the fact that braid can fray when rubbing on rocks and whatnot. FC is much more resistant to that.

[senile1]

No one knows the answer to this.  I suppose bass could be put off by hooks, hardware, line, trolling motor noise and vibration, sonar pings, etc., but we really cannot know for certain with the current state of study regarding bass.  And just because bass bite lures with hooks doesn't mean that there aren't some bass out there that won't bite our lures because of the hooks, just as there could possibly be some bass out there that won't bite lures because of that unnatural line extending from it.  

 

It seems to be a common human condition that many of us can't handle ambiguity.  There is nothing wrong with saying, based on the evidence, I don't know and I can't know.  We don't have to commit to a stance when perfect empirical evidence doesn't exist to support our stances.  This can be applied to many other things that people debate as well.      We just have to handle this on the water in a way that gives us the most confidence, and that will be different for each of us.

[FrogFreak]

No one knows the answer to this.  I suppose bass could be put off by hooks, hardware, line, trolling motor noise and vibration, sonar pings, etc., but we really cannot know for certain with the current state of study regarding bass.  And just because bass bite lures with hooks doesn't mean that there aren't some bass out there that won't bite our lures because of the hooks, just as there could possibly be some bass out there that won't bite lures because of that unnatural line extending from it.  

 

It seems to be a common human condition that many of us can't handle ambiguity.  There is nothing wrong with saying, based on the evidence, I don't know and I can't know.  We don't have to commit to a stance when perfect empirical evidence doesn't exist to support our stances.  This can be applied to many other things that people debate as well.      We just have to handle this on the water in a way that gives us the most confidence, and that will be different for each of us.

 

Just to be sure, I think I'm going to stop using hooks on my lures!

[bassin is addicting]

If they are smart enough to figure out line is bad, how come they aren't smart enough to figure out the bait is not real food? 

 

X2

[mjseverson24]

they do figure out lures are not good for their health eventually, which is why you typically dont catch fish on the same lures that they did 50+ years ago at least not with the regularity that they did back then... the one thing that has remained constant throughout the years is a line is always attached to a lure, if you can somehow make that line less visible or noticeable I would say that is an advantage... 

 

Mitch

[Catt]

they do figure out lures are not good for their health eventually, which is why you typically dont catch fish on the same lures that they did 50+ years ago at least not with the regularity that they did back then... the one thing that has remained constant throughout the years is a line is always attached to a lure, if you can somehow make that line less visible or noticeable I would say that is an advantage...

Mitch

Dang it! So I guess I'll have to start telling the bass they can't hit Jitterbugs, Zara Spooks, Pop-R, Snaggless Sally's, Mudbugs any more!

So I guess the bass I catch on those lures don't count?

[bass1980]

This debate rivals lure colors

[frogflogger]

I use lines that I 'think' help in a specific situation - usually to do with not impeding action or presentation - not sure bass care but I do know really big bass are a different ball game altogether.

[skeletor6]

An interesting read on the topic. http://digital.library.okstate.edu/oas/oas_pdf/v59/p34_40.pdf

[Elegantly Wasted]

An interesting read on the topic. http://digital.library.okstate.edu/oas/oas_pdf/v59/p34_40.pdf

Biggest problem with that study: depth of the water in the test tank is 30". We know visible light spectrum decreases as a function of water depth. At around 10 feet the only discernible color would be blue (yes I'm assuming fish have similar color discrimination to humans). 

[FrogFreak]

Didn't I hear that Bass have a 15 minute memory? I think PondBoss might have said that during his video. 

[FCPhil]

I can’t speak to fluorocarbon, I wrote it off long ago due to trouble getting reliable knots, but one thing I think is important to point out...if you watch underwater videos of lures using mono, the mono can very visible in bright conditions. Sometime it almost looks like a white fishing line. 

[The Bassman]

On 2/28/2014 at 5:06 PM, FrogFreak said:

Didn't I hear that Bass have a 15 minute memory? 

I know some people that must have bass genes. My ex was a LM.

[Deleted account]

On 2/27/2014 at 6:59 PM, mjseverson24 said:

they do figure out lures are not good for their health eventually, which is why you typically dont catch fish on the same lures that they did 50+ years ago at least not with the regularity that they did back then

So great, great grandma bass is sitting down the fry and telling them the story of her first bau who fell for the Arbogast? This makes no sense.

[CrankFate]

I don’t know. I often fish colored braid with short leaders. In clear water I’ve seen them watch the line go by and never bite. Other days they’ll happily get right behind the bait, wagging their tails and following it before they bite.